Krupa or Rich?

[Ian Thumwood]

Always loved this drummer's work (sadly negelcted on this board.) Here's a track that features the great Marty Ehrlich:-

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Sandy Nelson could do it all standing on one leg....

Charli Persip let his own fine BB, Superband in the 80s...two v.good albums on Soulnote.

BN

[Zauberfloete]

However, I would have to say that Krupa was one of the weak links in Goodman's band of that time ...

Ian

I'm really shocked by what you said about Krupa being a weak link! I must bow to your superior knowledge but I don't think I'll change my mind about his performance in "Sing, sing, sing"!

Thanks very much indeed for the thoughtful and informative response to my post. I LOVED the Chick Webb clip from YouTube - thanks so much for posting it. I'm also grateful to other contributors for their suggestions of great drummers; I can't say that I'm familiar with any of their names so I look forward to many happy hours researching them!

[Alyn_Shipton]

Of the musicians whose literary work I published, Danny Barker's favourite swing era drummer was Jimmy Crawford. Buck Clayton's were Jo Jones and Osie Johnson. Doc Cheatham's was Jackie Williams. George Shearing's were Sid Catlett and Denzil Best. Bud Freeman's was George Wettling. Among the best drummers I have seen live were/are Rich, Art Blakey, Ben Riley, Jack DeJohnette, Alvin Queen and Barrett Deems. Best drummer I ever played with: Freddie Kohlman (though Louis Barbarin, Cie Frazier and Chester Jones weren't bad!). But I have something of a soft spot for this man:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00g3rvs

[Alyn_Shipton]

Actually this fellow was quite good as well...http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nh600

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the two drummers Zauberfloete places at the top of the thread are famous but when it comes to big band drumming you have to listen to the Basie, Ellington and Webb Bands ...

Jo Jones was a master in small an large ensembles
Chic Webb was a phenomenon
and for Sonny Greer with Ellington check out our own Clive Heath's post and wonderful site

the elephant in the room here is race; you will have noted that the jazbos are listing african-american drummers ... but please let us not go there!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Why not? Rich and Krupa were also loud and flashy, and along with Louie Bellson were the drummers kids in my yoof first latched on to...with awful consequences...

BN.

Skin Deep...Skin Creep, Oh my head....keep it down!

[Alyn_Shipton]

Actually I had a lot of time for Louie. He was very insightful about playing for both the Ellington and Basie bands, and gave me the most succinct and detailed account of how it felt to play in a rhythm section with Freddie Green. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j8cyl

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Mel Lewis was a drummer who worked in that big band field and seemed to me to have chops AND taste..and was equally at home in small group jazz.

His work with the Gerry Mulligan concert band?

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

past your bedtime El Senor? early start to feed the ducks eh ...

always had a soft spot for Joe Morello meself

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Cant sleep, the ducks are blasting out old Preston Epps bongo records outside the local Tory HQ. Last night it was conga drums...

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Quarky]

the two drummers Zauberfloete places at the top of the thread are famous but when it comes to big band drumming you have to listen to the Basie, Ellington and Webb Bands ...

the elephant in the room here is race; you will have noted that the jazbos are listing african-american drummers ... but please let us not go there!

Couldn't possibly add to the expert information on this thread, but I would like to pick up this prickly pear of race.

Hopefully the Western world has moved on in terms of Society values since the 1930's (didn't Aretha Franklin get a very high award from the Clinton government?), but I'm not sure that the "elevation" of Krupa and Rich to equal status with the truly great drummers, Jo Jones, Big Sid Catlett, and the others listed in this thread is solely about race.

I was reminded of another factor as a result of the recent Lance Armstrong cycling scandal, namely that young people, boys and girls, need a hero in their mind's eye on which to model themselves. I was reminded because some of the ingenuous comments that were made about Armstrong by otherwise extremely intelligent cycling stars. And if you pick up a cycling magazine, articles will go into great depth about young stars, where in truth there's nothing much to note other than they can ride a bike fast.

So as an apologia for Krupa and Rich, I guess they may have performed a service for Jazz by serving for young white people as a role model that was socially acceptable to the families of youngsters interested in Jazz.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

In Eric Delaneys stage act, he would fire a cannon from the drums and a duck would fall from the roof...a trumpet player would then unzip it and eggs would fall out.

Cool.

BN.

Fascist Bstd! - The Ducks

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

it was American racism i had in mind , not the personal views of Krupa or Rich who jammed around as musicians did on a completely open basis; biut the media and the industry pushed them at the expense of the masters ... and i happily admit to loving Krupa on both the recorded and Carnegie versions of Sing Sing Sing since adolescence ...