My favourite jazz album has got to be Benny Goodman Live at Carnegie Hall in 1938, which I first heard as a very small child. "Sing, Sing, Sing" will always be my top jazz piece and this version is the best of them all (I reckon, anyway). I have always felt that there is a raw energy about it which just doesn't come across in any other version I've heard, although I'm prepared to be educated by jazzers who know a lot more about this kind of thing than I do. For me, much of the rawness and energy is attributable to Gene Krupa, who has always seemed to me to be the greatest drummer ever ... until now, when I've just come across Buddy Rich via the wonders of YouTube. Now I'm in a quandary! Rich doesn't seem to have the same kind of charisma but a better technique. Please do correct me if I'm wrong - I'm no expert in these things but I stand in awe of them both. Do any drummers have an opinion on which of the two was the better? I suppose that "better" is the wrong word to use, as they were both phenomenal players, but I hope you know what I mean.
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Um:
There must be more 'cos there certainly is on the CD it have of the two of 'em. -
I would say that technically Buddy Rich is the man, but very much big band swing orientated. His LP "Richcraft" is sensational.Originally posted by Zauberfloete View Post
Krupa is more musically versatile although I do find that predominant tom tom style a bit overdone, but his small group work with Goodman is as good as you will hear from that era.
HSComment
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I could not have put it better hornspieler
How about British drummers? Phil Seaman? (see my avatar)Comment
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No drummer jokes yet?
I like John Lennon's response when asked if Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world.
"He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles!"
Sorry I'll get my................................Comment
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Its like chosing between the Red Army and the Werhmacht...I wouldnt have either round my house!
Aw, that God awful bass drum of Herr Rich.
BN.
Mind you, I love Krupa's Drum Boogie film extract where he plays on a matchbox...classic!Comment
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From the film...Blonde on Fire.
I think Krupa kind of predated Jerry Lee Lewis in the mad as hell stakes....joyous!
BN.Comment
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er Roy Haynes
According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.Comment
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According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.Comment
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Frank Butler...of whom Jo Jones said...the best drummer in the world.
Mo bounce avec Curtis Counce..
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sheer joy
According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.Comment
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An amateur drummer died and went to heaven. He was waiting outside the pearly gates when he heard the most incredible fast and furious drumming coming from within. Immediately he recognized the playing and rushed to ask St. Peter if that was Buddy Rich playing drums inside the gates. St. Peter responded: "No, that's God. He just thinks he's Buddy Rich."Originally posted by antongould View PostComment
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My ducks say...chump vs clump.
Drummers who can swing a larger band, without being as loud and self promoting as Nadine Dorries.............Charli Persip, Klook, Roy Haynes...
BN.Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; 27-11-12, 14:38.Comment
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Coming soon...Elvis vs Cliff, Bill Black vs Jet Harris. Who swings the most? Mostest.
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Zauberfloete
When I first started to listen to jazz when I was about 13/14 and cut my teeth listening to big bands. It always seemed to be the case that the general consensus was that Rich and Krupa were deadly rivals for the title of the greatest drummer in jazz. My Dad is an avid Buddy Rich fan and I always tended to think that Rich defined what a jazz drummer could do until I heard this record which made me realise that there had been other drummers out there who would have probably slaughtered both Krup and Rich. Hopefully this will be a new discovery for you too and perhaps you will become a convert to the incredible drumming of Chick Webb:-
I totally agree about the appeal of Goodman's Carnegie Hall concert which I think stands as one of the greatest jazz records of all time. The version of "Sing, sing, sing" is sensational although, for me, it is the Jess stacey piano solo which is the icing on the cake. However, I would have to say that Krupa was one of the weak links in Goodman's band of that time and the whole rhythm section is quite up to matching the snap and wing of the reeds and brass on this ensemble. Harry Goodman's bass is a bit of a problem too. As far as the trios and quartets are concerning, I've always been more impressed by Krupa's replacement, Dave Tough , who was more sympathetic . Tough also made some impressive recordings with other band leaders such as Woody Herman and Tommy Dorsey and should be better considered these days. I would have to agree with Calums assessment of Jo Jones being the best of the lost and I feel he was the most sympathetic and swinging of all the pre-modern jazz drummers and benefited from lacking the shwomanship of Rich, Krupa and Webb. If you like big bands, I think that Alvin Burroughs (Earl Hine's band), Ray Bauduc (Bob Crosby), George Wettling (Bunny Berigan - Buddy Rich also played for this band too), Shadow Wilson (Count Basie) and Big Sid Catlett are all drummers worth checking out. Gene Krupa's album "Plays the music if Gerry Mulligan" is also well wirth the money and, in my opinion, is the best thing that Krupa ever recorded. There are other drummers from the 40's like Don Lamond and Sonny Igoe (not the ex-Portsmouth FC player) who are now almos forgotten despite their talent.
I think these days it is too easy to slag of Buddy Rich, especially if you are not really into or appreciative of big band jazz. In this context, I feel that Rich was capable of some really solid work and even in the 70's and 80's could produce jazz that was pretty useful. As I implied, I grew up listening to Buddy Rich at a time pre-Marsalis when the drummer's band offered one of the few, viable mainstream jazz groups with any sort of widespread profile. these days, I'm no longer a huge fan of this band yet I can appreciate that it was a good ensemble committed to making good jazz. As far as his small group work is concerned, there are records with him playing with Basie contingents in the 1950's which are very good indeed. It is also true that some of the records he produced with smaller bands could become tedious due to long drum solos and his compulsion to dominate soloists. In the latter context, I feel that he was not at all sympathetic.
Strange to read through Bluesnik's list of drummers who played with larger ensembles. This is the first time I've read anyone putting a shout in for the under-appreciated Charli Persip. I love Roy Hayne's playing too even if I am not too aware of his ever playing in too many big bands. He's about the greatest smaller group drummer of his generation and always on form. As far as more modern bog band drummers, staggered to see no comments in favour of the great Peter Erskine, probably the greatest drummer ever in the context of big bands. I've always loved his playing. No mention of Mel Lewis, John Hollenbeck, Bill Stewart , etc or even Butch Miles who is reverred by most drummers who have ever worked in big bands.Comment
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