Janny G

[Tenor Freak]

Listening to the wonderful Dansere (on vinyl!) again this evening I was reminded of the Graun's blog post about his LJF appearance. The diminishing of Garbarek's jazz credentials is a real source of sadness for me (almost as much as Wynton's backward march). I couldn't sit through his album Dresden which was flat and devoid of interest IMO. He hasn't quite made it to Kenny G's level but he's sailing close.

I wish he would play some bloody jass, dammit.

Ah...that's better.

[Ian Thumwood]

Bruce

I had never heard of Jan Garbarek until I went up to Edinburgh Festival in 1987 with some friends when I took in one of his concerts as well as some of the fringe and watching Hearts play in the Scottish League Cup. Someone at a gig described him to me as "the greatest sazophonist in jazz" which annoyed me as I thought that if he was that good I would have heard of him! In fact, the concert (which toured the music from "It's ok to listen to the grey voice" was a revelation to me and I became a massive fan. He really seeme to be doing something different and the approach was alarming in many respects as it made what Marsalis and his ilk were doing seem a million miles away from what jazz could sound like. Garbarek pushed the doors open to me to other artists on ECM other than Chick Corea.

Funnily enough, I also "got out" of Garbarek almost as quickly. "I took up the runes" seemed poor and when I returned to "Legend of the seven dreams" some time later, I was shocked at just how little jazz there was in it when I played it after an absence. Under his own name, Garbarek seemed to have little to do with jazz at all and even the free-er stuff from the late 60's / early 70's like "Esoteric circle" and "Afric Pepperbird" just seem a rough and ready approximation of the kind of jazz made by the Avant Garde around 1964/5. I can barely manage to listen to Garbarek's work these days - he is not "in the zone." as you suggest, Garbarek has become a "Nordic Kenny G" and his relationship to quality, non-commercial jazz is probably only marginally better than someone like Stan Getz who I would also tend to put in the same box as "nice sound, no content." (Although , like Garbarek, there are albums like "People Time" where Getz could demonstrate what he was capable of and show hios true mettle.)

I admit that the stuff he made with Jarrett was exceptional and I quite like his work with artists such as Egberto Gismonti and Tomasz Stanko too. "Paradigm" is a good , if neglected album. However, nothing made under his own name matches this. The various incarnations of "JG Group" have quickly dated and if I would point anyone to listen to a record with Garbarek on it, it would have to be where he is in an acoustic settiing from 1974-1988. I'm not actually too disappointed by the music Garbarek has ended up playing as he was only ever half-heartedly involved in jazz. Alot of the stuff on ECM that sounded great when I was a teenager no longer seems quite so cutting edge and, to me, the label almost has the air of a dusty, New Age Blue Note in the way that fans of the label seem to laud it without realising that Eicher's successful strike rateis probably less than 40%.

[Serial_Apologist]

Bruce

I had never heard of Jan Garbarek until I went up to Edinburgh Festival in 1987 with some friends when I took in one of his concerts as well as some of the fringe and watching Hearts play in the Scottish League Cup. Someone at a gig described him to me as "the greatest sazophonist in jazz" which annoyed me as I thought that if he was that good I would have heard of him! In fact, the concert (which toured the music from "It's ok to listen to the grey voice" was a revelation to me and I became a massive fan. He really seeme to be doing something different and the approach was alarming in many respects as it made what Marsalis and his ilk were doing seem a million miles away from what jazz could sound like. Garbarek pushed the doors open to me to other artists on ECM other than Chick Corea.

Funnily enough, I also "got out" of Garbarek almost as quickly. "I took up the runes" seemed poor and when I returned to "Legend of the seven dreams" some time later, I was shocked at just how little jazz there was in it when I played it after an absence. Under his own name, Garbarek seemed to have little to do with jazz at all and even the free-er stuff from the late 60's / early 70's like "Esoteric circle" and "Afric Pepperbird" just seem a rough and ready approximation of the kind of jazz made by the Avant Garde around 1964/5. I can barely manage to listen to Garbarek's work these days - he is not "in the zone." as you suggest, Garbarek has become a "Nordic Kenny G" and his relationship to quality, non-commercial jazz is probably only marginally better than someone like Stan Getz who I would also tend to put in the same box as "nice sound, no content." (Although , like Garbarek, there are albums like "People Time" where Getz could demonstrate what he was capable of and show hios true mettle.)

I admit that the stuff he made with Jarrett was exceptional and I quite like his work with artists such as Egberto Gismonti and Tomasz Stanko too. "Paradigm" is a good , if neglected album. However, nothing made under his own name matches this. The various incarnations of "JG Group" have quickly dated and if I would point anyone to listen to a record with Garbarek on it, it would have to be where he is in an acoustic settiing from 1974-1988. I'm not actually too disappointed by the music Garbarek has ended up playing as he was only ever half-heartedly involved in jazz. Alot of the stuff on ECM that sounded great when I was a teenager no longer seems quite so cutting edge and, to me, the label almost has the air of a dusty, New Age Blue Note in the way that fans of the label seem to laud it without realising that Eicher's successful strike rateis probably less than 40%.

My first encounter with Garbarek's stuff came courtesy "Travels" from 1977 on ECM, with John Taylor and iirc Jack DeJohnette. Less, on this occasion, for me certainly did not mean more, despite a friend claiming that "one note of Garbarek is worth a thousand from Coltrane", and the delayed climax (which never really emerges amid the synth loops and ominous organ chords) reminded me of Minimalism - still then a meaningful term and concept, except for the language suggesting moving beyond stasis. That record almost put me off Garbarek from the start - not just a saxophone tone that grates like finger nails on blackboards - a disappointment he now seems to have converged into an entire output - and, as one who counts sound pretty high on the appreciation meter, it was only later that I discovered the solos on "Electronic Sonata". "Afric Pepperbird", the omnitemporal "Belonging", and the later ones on, especially, Kenny Wheeler's "Deer Wan", which I think influenced to the good a few young saxophonists in the following decade, from Mike Brecker "Double Double You" and Tore Brumborg to our own Ed Jones (believe it or not!) Tommy Smith and Andy Sheppard. The same abovementioned friend said, you either love or hate Jan Garbarek; in remaining ambivalent - recognising his originality of sound and context, I guess I might be his exception.

[Ian Thumwood]

S-A

The question with Garbarek will always be why did he not continue recording in the same vein as the stuff he produced with Keith Jarrett's brilliant quartet, the music with Egberto Gismonti or even the Tomasz Stanko disc I mentioned earlier? There is something strange about ECM's work in the 70's and 80's tha captured the exeprimentation and need to move away from the more "American tradition" which, at the time, opened up a whole range of possibilities as to what jazz might be. During this period, I think ECM offered a very viable and rewarding alternative to the American model whilst the whole "serious" demeanor of the label only served to promote the merit of alot of the material ECM put out a the time. I think ECM "worked" best when it offered something that logically followed on from the 1960's Free Scene and as long as there was a jazz element in there, I feel the label turned out some cracking records during this period.

With Garbarek, the problem for me was that the model started to more too far away from the American template and then, more away from even remotely being considered to be jazz. At the time, (mid 80's), I agree with you that Garbarek seemed one of the most potent alternatives to what had come out of America and would agree to some extent that Brecker's work on the excellent "Double, double you" record did tip it's hat across this side of the Atlantic. For me, Andy Sheppard sounds increasingly like Garbarek on his own records whereas I very much like his work with Carla Bley where I think he has found a sympathetic niche. Sorry, but I find Tommy Smith unlistenable - there is a dourness in his playing which coupled with the lack of emotion means that I have never been able to warm to his work.

When I discovered Garbarek, he did indeed sound like he would be a major influence yet the music has moved on significantly and I don't feel that all of his music was as good as it sounded at the time. A lot of it has dated poorly and compared to a younger generation of saxophonists such as Chris Potter, Greg Osby, Kenny Garrett, David Binney, Branford Marsalis, Joe Lovano, etc, etc, Garbarek's music seems trite. I don't think George Russell's assessment that Garbarek was the most distinctive European sound in jazz since Django helped either.

I see what you mean about being ambivalent but I would have tp say that I love Garbarek's jazz work with the likes of Jarrett but dislike the New Age, "Nordic" soudning jazz. The latter is enough to make you feel positive about Edward Grieg!

[Tenor Freak]

I have seen Jan twice (once with his quartet in '88 and once with the Officium lot at Salisbury Cathedral, about '94 I think) and own a shed load of his product. He's done some cracking stuff as a leader, though he's another one of those performers (like Bill Frisell) whom I think I prefer when he's a sideman. He's brilliant on Deer Wan; I don't understand why Eicher never put him together with Kenny Wheeler on another LP. He's also very fine on Gary Peacock's Guamba LP in another tenor/trumpet front line (with Palle Mikkelborg).

I agree that he's spawned many imitators. Mind you, Tore Brunborg only sounds like him on tenor, not soprano. (I know him only by his work with Masqualero, he might have changed his playing style since he joined Tord Gustavsen).