Django prom

**Serial_Apologist** · 31-08-12, 15:13

I guess if you've collaborated with Stephane Grapelli you've got some excuse, but I can feel Trevor Cooper hackles on my alert meter with this one.

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 31-08-12, 15:20

...i know what you mean .....

**Tenor Freak** · 01-09-12, 21:58

Sometimes I do wish Trevor would join in with some well-earned invective...

**Serial_Apologist** · 01-09-12, 23:26

If I could summarise what this concert meant for me, I'd have to say 2012, going on 1950

**Ian Thumwood** · 02-09-12, 09:15

I don't miss Trevor at all. Ok, as Bruce says, he did spice up the old message board, but outside of his sphere of post-War British jazz, he was frequently ill-informed and wide of the mark in most of his judgements. I prefer Bluesnik's input which covers the same era but which is far more accurate in the appraisal even if the field of interest is much more narrower than mine and I don't agree with some of his assessments.

The problem with Trevor was his hectoring tone. The same comments got posted time and time again as if it was a mantra. In the end, it became annoying reading about why Guy Barker, Alan Barnes or Simon Spilletweren't "proper" jazz musicians or why singers weren't considered to be jazz at all. There was also the stupid references to Cliff Richard which seemed to come from nowhere else other than his head. In the end, he deserved the kick-in he got from some (including me) on the old board. Simon Spillet's sensible comments about Trevor a few months back are probably indictative of how many people felt about his posts. Can't imagine that his comments won him any friends amongst musicians. I also got the strong impression that he never attended gigs and that his "jazz experience" existed solely from listening to LPs and CD's. Whenever he was pushed on this, there was always an excuse about working on his boat , burying his wife under the pation or his leg had fallen off. A difficult and awkward man who liked the sound of his own voice and had little or no social skills to appreciate that there were many who didn't share his opinion.

If you are into jazz in a serious fashion, in my opinion you need to consider the whole picture ranging from the very earliest recordings through to contemporary stuff. It's all there to explore and whilst everyone has particular blind spots with certain musicians, Trevor was probably unique in hating more jazz than he liked. His parameters were shockingly narrow - a position which made his views even moe bizarre as he was often the champion of some pretty work-a-day boppers. I don't miss him one bit and this board is much better without this character who had a propensity to lecture.

**grippie** · 02-09-12, 12:05

Every message board needs it's curmudgeon

and Trevor was one of the best, it's a bit dull without him. present company excepted of course. He did play and he has a great sense of humour, shown on the old Radio 7 message board. Greatly missed along with all the other characters e.g. King Kennytone.

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 02-09-12, 14:03

...TC had one attribute that i miss most, his love of Stan Getz which i always relied on when the rest of you got narky about Stanley ..... and much missed for his enthusiasms and prejudices, his acerbity was only sometimes just a tad misjudged and i for one would not wish to comment upon it .... [Glass, House, Stone etc ...] and like Bruce wish he was here ...

**Serial_Apologist** · 02-09-12, 14:09

Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

I don't miss Trevor at all. Ok, as Bruce says, he did spice up the old message board, but outside of his sphere of post-War British jazz, he was frequently ill-informed and wide of the mark in most of his judgements. I prefer Bluesnik's input which covers the same era but which is far more accurate in the appraisal even if the field of interest is much more narrower than mine and I don't agree with some of his assessments.

The problem with Trevor was his hectoring tone. The same comments got posted time and time again as if it was a mantra. In the end, it became annoying reading about why Guy Barker, Alan Barnes or Simon Spilletweren't "proper" jazz musicians or why singers weren't considered to be jazz at all. There was also the stupid references to Cliff Richard which seemed to come from nowhere else other than his head. In the end, he deserved the kick-in he got from some (including me) on the old board. Simon Spillet's sensible comments about Trevor a few months back are probably indictative of how many people felt about his posts. Can't imagine that his comments won him any friends amongst musicians. I also got the strong impression that he never attended gigs and that his "jazz experience" existed solely from listening to LPs and CD's. Whenever he was pushed on this, there was always an excuse about working on his boat , burying his wife under the pation or his leg had fallen off. A difficult and awkward man who liked the sound of his own voice and had little or no social skills to appreciate that there were many who didn't share his opinion.

If you are into jazz in a serious fashion, in my opinion you need to consider the whole picture ranging from the very earliest recordings through to contemporary stuff. It's all there to explore and whilst everyone has particular blind spots with certain musicians, Trevor was probably unique in hating more jazz than he liked. His parameters were shockingly narrow - a position which made his views even moe bizarre as he was often the champion of some pretty work-a-day boppers. I don't miss him one bit and this board is much better without this character who had a propensity to lecture.

I don't altogether share your thinking that to be into jazz in a serious fashion, one necessarily has to "consider the whole picture ranging from the very earliest recordings through to contemporary stuff", Ian.

People of Trevor's generation came into jazz when opinions regarding current and past styles of jazz frequently invoked heated debate and a lot of contention - which I still hear from my estimable elder companions at gigs where the majority of the audience is older than my 66 years old self.

. I was one of those who, in the early '60s, lost a few friends when I made a kind of "transition" from digging revivalist bands to what we called "modern jazz", and though I came to look upon the Chris Barbers and Acker Bilks of that era as reproducers of styles that had outlived their eras, I never stopped appreciating the forerunners of bebop, pioneers in their day. There were a few of us about - I guess Calum would have been one of them too. But I agree with your, er, implicit suggestion that Trevor had a very droll sense of humour.

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 02-09-12, 15:12

...er back to the start for a bit .... the music sounds very Hollywood film noir .... struggling to find a distinct French never mind Parisian nostalgia .... however if you ignore what it claims it sounds ok i guess .... never one to deny third stream an outing .... but more radically convinced music would be preferable .... maybe these guys are just too nice ...

**Serial_Apologist** · 02-09-12, 15:20

Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post

...er back to the start for a bit .... the music sounds very Hollywood film noir .... struggling to find a distinct French never mind Parisian nostalgia .... however if you ignore what it claims it sounds ok i guess .... never one to deny third stream an outing .... but more radically convinced music would be preferable .... maybe these guys are just too nice ...

The start of it had me going "wow!" - then it suddenly switched into the sort of background music to a 1950s Hotpoint TV ad, and remained in that vein, so I just carried on reading the much more interesting messages on this forum with it in the background. Hence my #5.

**burning dog** · 03-09-12, 12:06

We've got to remember when Trevor (and my father for that matter) championed boppers, as early as the mid 50s I guess, not trads (who were heroes of the traditional left) and neither (or not exclusively) the Mulligan/Brubeck cool school, they were likely considered "a bit nuts" and possibly hard drug users, hardly conservative or narrow minded.

I agree with SA it seems it was a stark choice in those days and it wasn't it the tradders who tended to be small c conservative, many rejecting Ellington and other mainstreamers? I remember my father saying his crew went to hear Louis Armstrong but the trad fans wouldn't been seen dead at a a bop gig.

For people who came to jazz before 1970, things were different.

I was aware of jazz by then but only as "nice" records I'd heard

**grippie** · 03-09-12, 14:20

We've got to remember when Trevor (and my father for that matter) championed boppers, as early as the mid 50s

This: http://youtu.be/A79yvcDRzIw would be the equivalent of Dracula being exposed to garlic to Trevor

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 03-09-12, 14:37

pipe pint beard duffel coat versus goatee beret bongos sharp threads and ciggies .... no contest

interludee rootie tootie etc

**burning dog** · 03-09-12, 22:47

Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post

That record is fantastic Calum Dizzy is outstanding

Django prom

Django prom

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