It's a WOMad, Mad, Mad World

[Old Grumpy]

GSJ and JLU have been shunted to make way for extended WOMAD coverage this coming weekend - which is not necessarily a bad thing (at least it's not Schubert again!).

However JRR remains, and at 5pm - Hurrah!

[Serial_Apologist]

GSJ and JLU have been shunted to make way for extended WOMAD coverage this coming weekend - which is not necessarily a bad thing (at least it's not Schubert again!).

However JRR remains, and at 5pm - Hurrah!

When it comes to Womad I'm like some 17th century Puritan.

I don't like the idea of some festival where different forms of folk music appear on different stages, or alternate on one stage. To me it's like some kind of reverse tourism on the cheap - Balinese dancing for the tourists, anyone? - though I can understand others who say, were it not for being able to experience these musics live, we would have no understanding or appreciation of their authenticity. But to me, a singer from Mali or Mongolia on a stage in Hyde Park or wherever is decontextualised, crammed in for convenience. Authenticity has been left at home. At a "cultural centre" I find it less objectionable, but there's still no escape from decontextualisation.

Tell me I'm wrong, someone, please?

[Alyn_Shipton]

I couldn't possibly comment on WOMAD, but owing to the proms there are some minor changes to JRR over the comiong weeks, so that you are all forewarned, here they are:
4 August we're at 5.15
11 and 18 August at 6.30
25 August back to normal at 5
1 September, 5.15.
Then back to 5.

[french frank]

I couldn't possibly comment on WOMAD, but owing to the proms there are some minor changes to JRR over the comiong weeks, so that you are all forewarned, here they are:
4 August we're at 5.15
11 and 18 August at 6.30
25 August back to normal at 5
1 September, 5.15.
Then back to 5.

And don't say you haven't been told!

[Ian Thumwood]

I find the whole concept of "World Music" extremely confusing. There is often a cross over with jazz and even at Vienne there is usually a night dedicated to Africa, Cuba or Brazil where some of the artists could be said to have a very tenuous link with jazz, if at all. Sometimes I have seen artists which I think have been terrific live acts. The best example I can think of if Salif Keita whose on stage exuberance makes Lionel Hampton seem like Lennie Tristano. (He is the only artist I can recall who invited about 100 people of stage along with him!) I would also have to say that I am a massive fan of Angelique Kidjo who may have originated from Benin but whose music takes on pop, Cuban, Brazilian and jazz in equal measure. This year I have been fortunate enough to also hear Fatamatou Diawara and Ouou Sangare (with a band that included Bela Fleck on banjo) and the results were terrific. African music is fascinating and I love the sound of the electric guitar in many African groups where they totally disregard the "one" in the bar. I think somoeone like lionel Loeke has been a breath of fresh air for jazz guitar. These African artists I saw were subsequently equalled by a live performance by Gaby Moreno who is Guatamala's equivalent of Norah Jones in both style and looks. ) If these artists were to represent "World music", I would be all for it!

However, I think that it is worth noting that alot of so called "World Music" is simply pop music from another part of the world. The quality is hugely variable. I find some of the more "folk" or "Traditional " artists especially tiresome even though I know that I should really be respecting their music. Unfortunately, I think a lot of it is 5hite. Nose flutes players and throat singers should all be left where they came from - only thing that you can say that is good about WOMAD in these instances is that it means you don't have to go to these wretched parts of the world to hear them! Some groups like Ivo Papasov are very good, sounding like a mash up between Benny Goodman and Bela Bartok. I can appreciate the artistry of Indian musicians and am intrigued by Gamelan orchestras yet the more oscure the music gets, the less appealing. Then again , traditional Irish music might get thrown in the same category and this is something that is even worse than Rap. Ample proof that Bono and U2 aren't necessairly the worse thing to come out of the emerald isle. Don't even get me on English folk music! It's a real mixed bag.

As far as WOMAD is concerned, if you click through the website there are plenty of acts which certainly appeal as they are jazz or blues. Others are probably not for the likes of SA and myself! It would also have to say that anything that also involves dancing is a big "no" - embarrassing to do and embarrasssing to watch. I also have an impression that WOMAD would involve lots of "national dishes" where the hygiene standards aren't going to be too great. Either that, or the food will all be vegetarian. I would also think that most of the people who go to WOMAD probably either read The Guardian or The Indepenent and probably wear sandals. The cardigan and woolly jumper count would also be pretty high as well as the propensity of middle aged men to where garish, baggy trousers than even Harpo marx would have shunned. I imagine that the women will also have long, dangly ear rings and maybe nasal piercings as well as those circular tattoos with a wiggly line down the middle and a little dot either side. Finally, I would guess that the toilet provisions will be pretty abysmal and be those telephone box sized chemical kiosks where it is like trying to have a pee on a bouncy castle. All told, I suppose some aspects of WOMAD appeals but I think it will come a long way behind watching the football tomorrow afternoon!

Rant over!

[Serial_Apologist]

I find the whole concept of "World Music" extremely confusing. There is often a cross over with jazz and even at Vienne there is usually a night dedicated to Africa, Cuba or Brazil where some of the artists could be said to have a very tenuous link with jazz, if at all. Sometimes I have seen artists which I think have been terrific live acts. The best example I can think of if Salif Keita whose on stage exuberance makes Lionel Hampton seem like Lennie Tristano. (He is the only artist I can recall who invited about 100 people of stage along with him!) I would also have to say that I am a massive fan of Angelique Kidjo who may have originated from Benin but whose music takes on pop, Cuban, Brazilian and jazz in equal measure. This year I have been fortunate enough to also hear Fatamatou Diawara and Ouou Sangare (with a band that included Bela Fleck on banjo) and the results were terrific. African music is fascinating and I love the sound of the electric guitar in many African groups where they totally disregard the "one" in the bar. I think somoeone like lionel Loeke has been a breath of fresh air for jazz guitar. These African artists I saw were subsequently equalled by a live performance by Gaby Moreno who is Guatamala's equivalent of Norah Jones in both style and looks. ) If these artists were to represent "World music", I would be all for it!



However, I think that it is worth noting that alot of so called "World Music" is simply pop music from another part of the world. The quality is hugely variable. I find some of the more "folk" or "Traditional " artists especially tiresome even though I know that I should really be respecting their music. Unfortunately, I think a lot of it is 5hite. Nose flutes players and throat singers should all be left where they came from - only thing that you can say that is good about WOMAD in these instances is that it means you don't have to go to these wretched parts of the world to hear them! Some groups like Ivo Papasov are very good, sounding like a mash up between Benny Goodman and Bela Bartok. I can appreciate the artistry of Indian musicians and am intrigued by Gamelan orchestras yet the more oscure the music gets, the less appealing. Then again , traditional Irish music might get thrown in the same category and this is something that is even worse than Rap. Ample proof that Bono and U2 aren't necessairly the worse thing to come out of the emerald isle. Don't even get me on English folk music! It's a real mixed bag.

As far as WOMAD is concerned, if you click through the website there are plenty of acts which certainly appeal as they are jazz or blues. Others are probably not for the likes of SA and myself! It would also have to say that anything that also involves dancing is a big "no" - embarrassing to do and embarrasssing to watch. I also have an impression that WOMAD would involve lots of "national dishes" where the hygiene standards aren't going to be too great. Either that, or the food will all be vegetarian. I would also think that most of the people who go to WOMAD probably either read The Guardian or The Indepenent and probably wear sandals. The cardigan and woolly jumper count would also be pretty high as well as the propensity of middle aged men to where garish, baggy trousers than even Harpo marx would have shunned. I imagine that the women will also have long, dangly ear rings and maybe nasal piercings as well as those circular tattoos with a wiggly line down the middle and a little dot either side. Finally, I would guess that the toilet provisions will be pretty abysmal and be those telephone box sized chemical kiosks where it is like trying to have a pee on a bouncy castle. All told, I suppose some aspects of WOMAD appeals but I think it will come a long way behind watching the football tomorrow afternoon!

Rant over!

[Serial_Apologist]

those circular tattoos with a wiggly line down the middle and a little dot either side.

Known as a Yin-Yang symbol: two fishes having intercourse: the eternal symbol of the interdependence of opposites in Taoism.

Eg

Up cannot exist without down
Light without darkness
Valleys without hills
Good without bad

But of course you knew all that...

[elmo]

Wow that really got Ian's goat - I bet the the dummy is still bouncing around the room. Still it will take the heat of my man Mobley and the rest of us Hard boppers for a few weeks.

[Old Grumpy]

I couldn't possibly comment on WOMAD, but owing to the proms there are some minor changes to JRR over the comiong weeks, so that you are all forewarned, here they are:
4 August we're at 5.15
11 and 18 August at 6.30
25 August back to normal at 5
1 September, 5.15.
Then back to 5.

Thanks Alyn, that's great - at least JRR is on before the witching hour!

As far as Womad goes, I guess I can take it or leave it, but there are certainly some good acts appearing. The mix of musics and genres does not worry me overmuch, I must say. I am very much of the good music/bad music school - obviously what I like is good and what I don't like is bad!

OG

[Lateralthinking1]

I am not sure whether I should comment.

First, people like what they like.

Next, the schedule. One part of me thinks that R3 quite enjoys the divide and rule thing that can result from blanket coverage. Normally this is on classical/speech v jazz/world lines but arguably a bit of jazz against world helps to dilute the case for each. A big plus for the opponents of both. Another part of me thinks that it is not the motivation. Womad coverage has been on the same lines for several years. A part of the raison d'etre of R3 is that it has scope for occasional extensive coverage of events and topics. It should not be so schedule bound. I am not sure that jazz ever has lengthy indulgence on R3. However, in weekly scheduling terms, some of the criticisms have now been addressed and it has had a better deal overall than WM.

Indirectly, the comments on this thread, which seek to place considerable distance between jazz and world music, touch upon developments in my thinking on world music of itself. My own starting point on music was always that it was a unifying force. Never as a teenager did I go through the stage of liking one genre to the exclusion of all else. Rather I liked what I considered to be the most appealing in all fields. Politically, world music was very much an extension of that outlook, the idea of one tent in which factions were irrelevant and open-mindedness paramount. I have to say that I am not now of that view in regard to WM. I don't think most punters work on that higher level and in that way it is little different from any other genre. Wherever there are sharp dividing lines in music, my feeling is that people are missing the fundamental point of music.

But as I say, people like what they like and they presumably only feel safe inside boundaries.

[Old Grumpy]

I am not sure whether I should comment.

First, people like what they like.

Next, the schedule. One part of me thinks that R3 quite enjoys the divide and rule thing that can result from blanket coverage. Normally this is on classical/speech v jazz/world lines but arguably a bit of jazz against world helps to dilute the case for each. A big plus for the opponents of both. Another part of me thinks that it is not the motivation. Womad coverage has been on the same lines for several years. A part of the raison d'etre of R3 is that it has scope for occasional extensive coverage of events and topics. It should not be so schedule bound. I am not sure that jazz ever has lengthy indulgence on R3. However, in weekly scheduling terms, some of the criticisms have now been addressed and it has had a better deal overall than WM.

Indirectly, the comments on this thread, which seek to place considerable distance between jazz and world music, touch upon developments in my thinking on world music of itself. My own starting point on music was always that it was a unifying force. Never as a teenager did I go through the stage of liking one genre to the exclusion of all else. Rather I liked what I considered to be the most appealing in all fields. Politically, world music was very much an extension of that outlook, the idea of one tent in which factions were irrelevant and open-mindedness paramount. I have to say that I am not now of that view in regard to WM. I don't think most punters work on that higher level and in that way it is little different from any other genre. Wherever there are sharp dividing lines in music, my feeling is that people are missing the fundamental point of music.

But as I say, people like what they like and they presumably only feel safe inside boundaries.

I think you most certainly should feel free to comment, Lat! As I infer in my initial post I do not necessarily object to increased coverage of WOMAD at the expense of some regular jazz programming, although (as posted) I am pleased JRR has been retained. Jazz does see increased coverage on R3 during the London Jazz Festival. If I recall some of the regular WM slots may give way and indeed some of the Performance on 3 slots on weekday evenings may feature material from the LJF.

OG