JRR disruptions

[Quarky]

i also admit to concluding that some opera might well be the chosen music of bankers. suspect some imagine that world, and jazz music is the chosen music of 'scruffy, low types' who 'deserve' little. but 'none' is taking any institutional assumptions about taste way too far. so i, for one, will feel the void left this weekend, specifically due to the cancellation of all the programmes that i might just bother getting my biro out for.

Generally agreeing with handsomefortune, can't agree with the conclusion opera is chosen music of bankers. Listen to the sycophantic drivel in the "features" on Jazz FM (what do you do with your bodyguard when you are invited to dinner? The British Banking system had absolutely nothing to do with the Global Financial Crisis) - there is clearly quite a large contingent of city-types that listen to Jazz.

So the truth is somewhat more complex, wherever the truth might be. I believe that the French National Radio, who have also broadcasted these Met productions, have had no problems with delaying broadcasts so as to fit within their existing time schedule.

So it seems to me that this issue is tied to political issues within Radio 3 - may be Roger Wright can't afford to annoy the Opera world? It's not just a cultural issue.

However so far as concerns JRR, it's clearly the mouse in the way of the great elephant of Opera on 3 - no argument, just get out of the way.

[Quarky]

Incidentally, I note that next week in the Schubert-athon, Opera on 3 has been put back to 7.30 pm:
19:30–22:00
Opera on 3
The Spirit of Schubert, Fierrabras
Andrew McGregor presents a performance of Schubert's last completed opera, Fierrabras.

[Alyn_Shipton]

While none of us who present Radio 3 shows particularly likes having our programme schedule changed, I'd have to say that the Don Giovanni from the Met on March 10 was a particularly brilliant version with Bryn Terfel et al. Absolutely stunning singing, and Andrew Davies prodding it along so it never flagged. Maybe write to the US State dept and ask why they start their daylight saving time two weeks earlier than the rest of us?

[handsomefortune]

tbf oddball, you missed out the all important word 'some' ....iirc some opera might well be the chosen music of bankers. i suspect some opera might be more progressive, despite when it was written/etc, and yet is rarely broadcast?

Listen to the sycophantic drivel in the "features" on Jazz FM (what do you do with your bodyguard when you are invited to dinner? The British Banking system had absolutely nothing to do with the Global Financial Crisis) - there is clearly quite a large contingent of city-types that listen to Jazz.

jazz fm?

behave oddball!

tbh, i do catch jazz fm occasionally: whenever i visit my dentist. though physically gentle with my teeth, (for HIS insurance reasons i understand) he seems to specifically lack empathy with my bank balance. yet clearly loves his own wads, and car the size of my entire house. since he eyes his car/caravan continually, parked just outside his surgery window - i do feel like telling him to 'keep your eye on the game' ....in my special gruff voice reserved for occasions when i'm petrified. purely in case he fills/extracts the wrong tooth, and then lies more effectively than i can complain!

but yes, judging by the jazz fm playing in the dentist waiting room/hygienists, it certainly makes me wild...in totally the wrong way.

as does the extra smarmy 'fm continuity person'. i can't help thinking that arguably jazz fm is hardly worth continuing? thankfully, i've only ever heard repeat promo trails, for jazz fm itself. never a complete conversation, one suggesting humans are actually present. i get the distinct impression jazz fm content is actually one very big cd repeated ...that there isn't anyone human physically at jazz fm, (but this'll be late morning/lunchtime i'm referring to)

so, i'd agree that bankers probably do like the really awful end of jazz schmoltz, as well as the equivalent opera. probably don't notice, worry, about the over promotion of the already overly famous - in fact, this is an increasing problem across all the arts.

extra promotion of what's already popular, and persistent, annoying, oily, adulation is unnecessary ....pointless, it's also a sign of utter insecurity, lack of good style on the part of those who dish it out imv ....assumes listeners 'know no better' which is patronising and loses audiences. presumably this aspect relates to broadcast/production/£ values, rather than necessarily a criticism of a given art form per se?

sadly, the reliance on repetition is transforming to a sureal art form in its own right ..and i'm sure others feel a similar sense of mutual two way rejection, which isn't good for radio as a unique form of entertainment unfortunately. radio's especially valuable for those who can't abide the majority of tv output... the best being available on the net of course..... and same is increasingly true of radio. it's a challenge ....especially for loyal listeners to the beeb.

[hackneyvi]

well good luck hackneyvi and nice to see you its been a while as they say ....

i have come to the dispiriting conclusion that putting one's point of view to R3 management is a waste of time .. aand we will have to outlive them any way that is my plan ...

You may be right about management simply refusing to recognise any validity in criticisms but I will persist for now. I think it's disrespectful to us as members of the audience (and to the performers and composers featured on this Pre-Hear) to cancel the show without acknowledgement. But then pretending there isn't an issue to address because Pre-Hear wasn't even a real programme is really stupid; insult to injury, I feel.

PS: Thanks for the welcome, Calum. Last time I was here I was truculent on the Hear and Now board about an inflammatory point I'd made. I was in the wrong. It seemed like the proper thing to do was to shut up for a bit.

[Jazzrook]

According to Mark Gilbert in Jazz Journal(April) the BBC want to "refresh" Jazz Record Requests and "attract a younger listenership". Surely. the content of JRR should be a true reflection of listeners' requests and not be forced into a jazz mould acceptable to the powers that be at Radio 3? I hope the new presenter, Alyn Shipton, will be able to resist this.

[grippie]

"refresh" Jazz Record Requests and "attract a younger listenership".


younger listenership Surely they've got Jamie Cullum on Radio2? If not who are his listeners? No one in this household.



Leave JRR as it is, if they have to move it's time around for live broadcasts so be it.

Margaret Juntwait

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

those more equal are electing a new people ....

i do feel that the management of R3 are doing harm to the jazz interest by their actions ...with consequent degradations in scheduling, content and presentation ...

the jazz audience has always, how might one put it, been mature ... even in the days of being fifteen and slipping into Soho clubs to listen to elite of Brit Bop the audience was of mixed age and we were certainly the younger element which was in an overall minority of the punters ,,,, has any one been to a jazz gig heavily populated by the younger set?

this only serves to confirm the malign influence of Pepsi Cola as a force in the management of R3 ...

[Byas'd Opinion]

There's also a bit in the Jazz Journal piece which talks about

to quote a BBC representative, a "collaborative decision" to "refresh" the programme.

So I suppose it's possible that Geoffrey Smith wanted a change?

I don't think that the content of JRR has necessarily been "a true reflection of listeners' requests" for a number of years (although obviously I can't prove that without access to a list of everything that's been requested). It seems very much to have become Radio Three's outlet for older styles of jazz. If we're going to get a well-informed programme concentrating on earlier styles of jazz, and a revitalised, slightly less predictable, JRR, the changes might not be totally negative.

But it's all the hints about "attracting a younger audience" that worry me (although unlike Calum I do see more youngsters at jazz gigs now than I did a few years back). As grippie says, isn't that what Jamie Cullum's show is for? I've enjoyed that the few times I've heard it, although his matey presenting style grates, but I suspect it's in line with the Radio Two house style.

I'm trying to be optimistic, but the overall pattern of developments at Radio Three over the past few years don't fill me with hope.

[Ian Thumwood]

Byas

I disagree with you to some extent. For me, JRR does represent some kind of demographic of the taste of the various jazz audiences and the ability to hear such a range of different styles is very much part of the appeal. It is good to have a show where you can hear a jug band one moment , a big band the next , some modern jazz and soemthing fresh and contemporary. For me, JRR was instrumental in broadening my tastes in jazz and as far as I am concerned, if it isn't broken, there is no need to change the format.

I don't like the idea of making the show more modern. What does this mean - only requests for EST get played? Whilst Youtube allows you to hear almost anything and makes the role of a request programme a little redundant especially when you compare it with the way it functioned when I discovered the programme as a teenager, the mix of music still makes this one of the best jazz shows on the air. With the passing of Humph, this is the onlu jazz programme to mix and match the different jazz styles on radio. If you don't mix things up, you end up with something dire like Jazz FM which has programmes like "Dinner Jazz" which actually turns me off the music!

I can't see a successful format being tampered with and whilst I do get fed up with the repeated requests for certain tracks , if it should change, it should be increased to 90 mins to allow longer tracks to be played. Any attempt to bar earlier forms of jazz will be a huge disappointment for me.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

if ever there was a show where anything goes should be the guiding light it is JRR ... tracks audience style period genre sub genre etc .... all except idiocy .... not short of that as far as jazz goes eh

[Old Grumpy]

Byas

I disagree with you to some extent. For me, JRR does represent some kind of demographic of the taste of the various jazz audiences and the ability to hear such a range of different styles is very much part of the appeal. It is good to have a show where you can hear a jug band one moment , a big band the next , some modern jazz and soemthing fresh and contemporary. For me, JRR was instrumental in broadening my tastes in jazz and as far as I am concerned, if it isn't broken, there is no need to change the format.

I don't like the idea of making the show more modern. What does this mean - only requests for EST get played? Whilst Youtube allows you to hear almost anything and makes the role of a request programme a little redundant especially when you compare it with the way it functioned when I discovered the programme as a teenager, the mix of music still makes this one of the best jazz shows on the air. With the passing of Humph, this is the onlu jazz programme to mix and match the different jazz styles on radio. If you don't mix things up, you end up with something dire like Jazz FM which has programmes like "Dinner Jazz" which actually turns me off the music!

I can't see a successful format being tampered with and whilst I do get fed up with the repeated requests for certain tracks , if it should change, it should be increased to 90 mins to allow longer tracks to be played. Any attempt to bar earlier forms of jazz will be a huge disappointment for me.

Entirely agree, IT. There perhaps does/did? seem to be a preponderance of the earlier forms of the music on JRR, but it was certainly not to the exclusion of more modern forms (including the present day). As you, I would be disappointed if the programme concentrated too much on the current jazz scene just to attract the "younger" demographic. I'm sure under Alyn's stewardship this will not be the case!

OG

[Byas'd Opinion]

I certainly wasn't intending to suggest that JRR should only concentrate on more modern forms of jazz. However, by default it's quite often ended up as the only place to hear earlier forms of the music on Radio 3 (unless Jazz Library is on and covering a historical figure that week).

I do feel, though - and perhaps I'm just seeing the past through distorting rosy-tinted glasses - that in recent years it's become much more structured than it used to be. Each broadcast starts with early jazz, works its way forward through the history of the music including at least one big band and singer on the way, until we reach some generally non-threatening contemporary jazz late in the programme, then finishes with the longest piece of the day (which can be from any period). It would be too strong use the word "formulaic", but I feel there's less of an element of surprise and excitement about it than there used to be.

Does the show as it exists at present represent a cross-section of what's actually being requested; or is the choice of tracks being influenced by the desire to shoehorn requests into a pre-determined structure?

Radio Three definitely needs a programme which covers earlier forms of jazz properly. I'm just not convinced that JRR has benefitted from being the one programme which attempts to do that as well as being a request show.

[Tenor Freak]

I do feel, though - and perhaps I'm just seeing the past through distorting rosy-tinted glasses - that in recent years it's become much more structured than it used to be. Each broadcast starts with early jazz, works its way forward through the history of the music including at least one big band and singer on the way, until we reach some generally non-threatening contemporary jazz late in the programme, then finishes with the longest piece of the day (which can be from any period). It would be too strong use the word "formulaic", but I feel there's less of an element of surprise and excitement about it than there used to be.

Perhaps I imagine it, but that seems to have been the structure of this programme for the last 25 years, which is how long I've been listening to JRR. Peter Clayton did largely the same on Sounds of Jazz, as did Brian Priestley on his Radio London/GLR show.

I'll be sorry to see Geoffrey go because he's played a fair proportion of my requests including a 13-minute George Russell epic (which was at the end of the show, ahem). You are right, Radio £3 needs a show concentrating on early jazz.