Posthumous releases - a R3 debate...

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"Tonight on Jazz on 3 we explore the decisions and processes involved in producing posthumous albums, paying a visit to the archives of improvising guitarist Derek Bailey in a feature that explores how such releases can impact on a jazz musician’s artistic legacy."

V. Interesting piece on last night's Jo3 on cashing in, and or artistic/historic worth of dead player's work released "after you've gone"...Alyn S praised the Swiss concert tapes of Buck Clayton and Chet and Dick T in Belguim, regreted Dizzy on Telmark; John Fordham wept over Miles lip long gone doing Gil with Quincy, and some interesting tapes of Monk rehearsing/working stuff out/being Monk

I'd nominate Paul Gonsalves "Hummingbird" from c. 1971 with Kenny Wheeler, Stan Tracey etc. as doing Paul G. no favours...either ill or over "refreshed". Nice band tho.

BN.

Some of Ron Coltrane's last (cross channel) cassette recordings are set for release when Moira signs the waver.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

was there a reason you preferred to start a new thread El Senor?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

WELL Calum, it was an interesting closing section of the Jo3 broadcast - not the music which was, as so often EXCRETABLE. (as in "excrete"). Contributors to this VITAL board may thus have missed the "talk" item by racing for the "F/off" switch. Being very BUSY people, with jobs in the city, off-shore call centres and corp PR. I therefore performed a VITAL public service. At NO cost..

Hey, don't be like the Stasi...Dig Stan Tracey, he's SO random" (today's Party slogan)

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

das ok den point taken

[Serial_Apologist]

This imv well-thought out article, I feel, (not by me btw), raises very important issues with regard to how jazz artists are remembered from the personal vs historical pov:

http://allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=41699

S-A

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

on first reading it is an excellent piece S_A and would make an excellent piece on a radio programme would it not? ....

i fully agree with Heining about the nonsenses about soft pedalling on the realities of personality and behaviour in jazz [a pretty rough load of people over the decades] .... ihave spent the day listening to Miles Davis In Person At the Blackhawk [again and still swooning] and no one would any longer pretend that MD was not a nasty piece of work .... to acknowledge the truth of Harriott's life, aggression and womanising and gambling is not to judge the man [cast yer own first stone] but know something of him .... and it is not romantic tosh to see the linkages between his background, bad behaviour and freedom of spirit which when he allowed it to make music was indeed the stuff of legend .... what the piece lacks is just the one reference to seeing that quintet live and the impact of their music ....

now if we are talking History i think we should see the behaviour in historical and cultural terms ; colonial identities, race, orphan status, education, attachment relationships and male role models have all taken a turn or two ... none of these were at all beneficial to Harriott's life [or many others] ... i do not want the real Joe to stand up i just want to hear him play again .... in the quintet

[Serial_Apologist]

on first reading it is an excellent piece S_A and would make an excellent piece on a radio programme would it not? ....

i fully agree with Heining about the nonsenses about soft pedalling on the realities of personality and behaviour in jazz [a pretty rough load of people over the decades] .... ihave spent the day listening to Miles Davis In Person At the Blackhawk [again and still swooning] and no one would any longer pretend that MD was not a nasty piece of work .... to acknowledge the truth of Harriott's life, aggression and womanising and gambling is not to judge the man [cast yer own first stone] but know something of him .... and it is not romantic tosh to see the linkages between his background, bad behaviour and freedom of spirit which when he allowed it to make music was indeed the stuff of legend .... what the piece lacks is just the one reference to seeing that quintet live and the impact of their music ....

now if we are talking History i think we should see the behaviour in historical and cultural terms ; colonial identities, race, orphan status, education, attachment relationships and male role models have all taken a turn or two ... none of these were at all beneficial to Harriott's life [or many others] ... i do not want the real Joe to stand up i just want to hear him play again .... in the quintet

Duncan's about 56/57 I think. Anyways he wouldn't have had the joy of experiencing Joe on the stand. As neither did I, sadly. Some things are irreplaceable. Trevor Cooper saw him iirc - his views would have been valuably contestable on the subject of JH.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

film bio of Joe Albany ..... a troubled person if ever there was one ...

[grippie]

Some of Ron Coltrane's last (cross channel) cassette recordings are set for release when Moira signs the waver.


This was a very sad day

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F2620065?thread=4581255

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

This was a very sad day
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F2...thread=4581255

and it was grippie it was ...an exceeding sad day when they stopped da bored ...

[Ian Thumwood]

Postumous releases can be a mixed bag. I don't think that there can be any complaints about the Monk / Coltrane release of the Carnegie Hall concert and the "One up, one down" double CD is simply the best Coltrane i've heard. When there are no questions or doubts about the quality of the music, I think these releases do the artist a favour - especially if the artist was hitherto under-recorded. With early material the question of historical significance comes into play and I feel that the importance of a lot of pre-1945 jazz musicians probably might be re-appraised in the light of previously unavailable material. I would suggest that many of these kind of musicians are unlikely to have been recorded in quantity unless popular / had a high profile.

However, I think that there is a less scrupulous case of many of the issues by lesser artists no really being worthwhile pressing the CDs. Live recordings of work by less reknown artists would tend to be one of my bugbears,especially when they are billed as the "lengendary....." sessions. The other thing that I really get annoyed about in alternative takes. I would have to say that a label like Lone Hill surprises me in that I would have doubted there would have been an audience for some of their releases. Ditto with a label like Avid which seems to be churning out some really obscure stuff which probably hasn't seen the light of day for 60 + years. When Blue Note started doing this on the RVG re-issues, I rarely played these recordings as they seemed inferior an frequently offered little to the awarenss of the particular musician. A better case might even be the Miles "Nefetiti" records where the rejeced takes large;y shoud have remained in the can and detract from what is otherwise a brilliant record. Doubt if they would have seen the light of day if Miles was still alive.

By and large, I think there is a risk of compromising the integrity of the artist in many of these cases and can appreciate why some of the estates involved may be guarded about what gets published. I think that there is a lot of jazz from 20's- 80's that can be a dire as some of the stuff criticised on this board.

[charles t]

Calum: Much indebted for that complete link to the Joe Albany doc.

Some years back, while waiting in line (90 minutes!) for The Godfather...Mario Puzo, of course...to sign some books, I struck up a conversation with the young lady standing behind me, who told me that she was Joe Albany's daughter. (Also that their name was Albanese...which is understandable).

Amy went on to write an acclaimed biography of her dad under the nom de plume A. J. Albany.

I ask you - what kind of a childhood memory is it to recall 'Bird' coming over to the house to shoot up?

And later to build statues to this guy?

Bluesnik - I don't want to hear it...