Erykah Badu

[Tenor Freak]

She's not a "girl singer" and for some reason not considered jazz, which I find odd because her music is drenched in it. Here's an example I heard on Jarvis Cocker's 6Music show. If you don't think this is jazz, I'd like to know why:

[Serial_Apologist]

Dodging the question, she is or isn't a jazz singer for the same reasons Stevie Wonder (whom she like a few others in the genre sounds like, from limited listening) is or isn't.

I'm happy to call the whole thing jazz - singer, instrumentation, modal harmonic ambience - because of the way she is contextualised, satin aftereffects and appearances notwithstanding, but I guess that's because since hearing Ray Charles at age 13 I've always preferred the soully thing to the guys with long straight hair - and sometimes gals - twanky guitars and a dominating shuffle beat.

[Ian Thumwood]

Bruce / SA

Been checking out Gretchen Parlato's first CD "In a dream" which is almost as good as the exceptional follow up. The reason by post this link as this is the opposite of what Bruce was on about. i.e. Someone who is definately very much in jazz but who is savvy enough to be influenced by contemporary bop. Check this out as I really feel GP is offering something totally new and original although there is a little bit of Sheila Jordan in there. On another thread this weekm a comment was made about cotemporary jazz influencing Ahmed Jamal and, in my opinion, GP is someone who is very much a musician who is defining what jazz is in 2012.

[Serial_Apologist]

Nice one Ian - you (or someone) has parlato of her before, if I'm not mistook?

Anyway I'm feeling sentimental today, so, a favourite blast, with similarities? anyway some ridiculously good tenor from Mr Henderson and interaction all round, from the past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zsb5rMncYU

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Jazz? Elle? Que diriez-vous lui?

[Lateralthinking1]

Nice one Ian - you (or someone) has parlato of her before, if I'm not mistook? Anyway I'm feeling sentimental today, so, a favourite blast, with similarities? anyway some ridiculously good tenor from Mr Henderson and interaction all round, from the past: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zsb5rMncYU

In getting some grip on 2011 - all genres - I did pick out Gretchen Parlato, among 399 others. "Holding Back The Years" and yet I can't say that I was wholly convinced. Something about pitch. Now, Flora Purim is clearly a reference point. Yes? With a little research, I'm asking myself if I should be listening to them rather as I would do to Astrud Gilberto. They make more sense to me in a Brazilian sort of context but not so much in a more standard form somehow. What then to make of, say, Bebel in jazz terms?

[Ian Thumwood]

Lateral thinking

"Holding back the years" was probably the safest track on the latest album and probably not too representative of what Parlato's music os about. I can see the similarity with Purim but would also add that GP is the least likely to today's crop of singers to tackle Boradway standards.

The other selections offer other posibilities from the Gainsbourg Gallo-pop cut and pasted on top of a jazz trio to the Badu track which is more in the spirit of what jazz should be about in my opinion. There is a 1970's feel to this track (especially with the fneder rhodes and the flute) yet the way that the backing is where the music seems to be happening . Who is the bassist? The oddness of it seems to recall the guitar playing of Lionel Loueke on the Parlato record. Surprised that no one here seems to have commented on this musician's approach to his instrument which seems extremely original and offers something entirely different from the usual rock or bebop kind of influences.

[Lateralthinking1]

Lateral thinking - "Holding back the years" was probably the safest track on the latest album and probably not too representative of what Parlato's music os about. I can see the similarity with Purim but would also add that GP is the least likely to today's crop of singers to tackle Boradway standards. The other selections offer other posibilities from the Gainsbourg Gallo-pop cut and pasted on top of a jazz trio to the Badu track which is more in the spirit of what jazz should be about in my opinion. There is a 1970's feel to this track (especially with the fneder rhodes and the flute) yet the way that the backing is where the music seems to be happening . Who is the bassist? The oddness of it seems to recall the guitar playing of Lionel Loueke on the Parlato record. Surprised that no one here seems to have commented on this musician's approach to his instrument which seems extremely original and offers something entirely different from the usual rock or bebop kind of influences.

Thank you Ian for those interesting comments. You have encouraged me to listen to more.

[Ian Thumwood]

Not quite sure where I read the comment but there was a thread on which Calum made the point about the new Rpbert Glasper album being "rank" or words to that effect. I wasn't aware that he had a new album out until I saw a review on the All about Jazz website where they continued their usual non-controversial policy of praising everything.

Here is a sample of what you can expect:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN0tFgLcp4g&feature=related

Having heard Glasper with his trio and on disc with the likes of Charles Tolliver I don't think you can slate him for not being a jazz musician but Calum's comment probably reflects the expectations of a jazz musician to be 100% dedicated to this art and not prostituting his talen by dabbling with pop. However, I am not a particular fan of this kind of music but would say as an artist Glasper should be free to issue whatever he likes and in whatever idiom he chooses. If the results are dire, I think he can expect some flak but reading the comments on the Youtube postings, it is clear that most people who are into this kind of vibe are saying that this is a masterpiece. Names like Guru and Herbie Hancock have been mentioned in comparison.

Whilst I don't think that this is an album that I will personally be rushing out to buy, it begs the question that why do jazz fans seems to damn jazz musicians who dabble in pop but then praise pop musicians who dabble in jazz? !! I think this thread illustrates this perception perfectly. In my opinion, the Glasper album should be considered very much a pop album and, as such, I think it is interesting that musicians as good as Glasper and Chris Dave should be involved. I would also suggest that this albums demographic is going to be pitched between 25-40 y.o.

One other point that I would like to add is why does this fusion of "Black popular culture" work so had in glove with modern jazz? To me, the combination is not at all jarring and certainly manages to reveal connections between art and popularism that have also been a major facet of jazz since the 20's when leading jazz musicians hooked up with the likes of the music publisher Clarence Williams who might be consider the equivalent of Mos Def today. Not really into the pop / rap aspect of things but when you hear tracks like the Badu one posted above you feel obliged to nod in recognition that this is hitting the same spot as a lot of jazz. Jazz has always reflected the popular music of the time and it is a fact that black popular culture has dominated and set the agenda for recorded popular music during the 20th century. It continues to do so and always will. White popular music, by comparison, is rarely a savvy and even if the likesw of The Beatles and their tunes are remembered with fondness, it is worthwhile noting that that the musical performances fall well short of what labels like Motown , Atlanta and Stax were doing at the same time. (Small wonder that so many of the Motown session musicians also worked in jazz.)

I would also add that I reckon a lot of jazz musicians will probably be more favourable in their assessment of a project such as this than the die-hard fans. Wondered if anyone had checked out the samples of the new Esperanza Spalding CD which is also more "soul" orientated but the sample on Amazon is very good indeed. Definately an album I would want to get my hands on! My only negative preception is that the Glasper disc is trying to be too hip and I wouldn't imagine stand the test of time. It will probably sound pretty tired in 5 years time so I think it is probably best to make the most of this record when it is still sparklingly new.

And seeing that this thread is about Erykah Badu, here is her very tasteful interpretation of "Afro Blue" from Robert Glasper's album:-

Off to watch "Porco Rosso".................

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i think i posted that it sucks ... did i hear the intimation of hip hop rap rip .... with one flick i was outa there ...

[Tenor Freak]

Thanks for that link, Ian. I don't know Glasper's work that well, but I think the comparison to Hancock is well made in that he is a bridge between jazz and hip hop.

Calum, why the beef about rap? Jazz, blues, rap etc are all from the same root. (Could this be a generational thing, I wonder?)

[Tenor Freak]

No translation required...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

... yeah rap dat rap crap rhyming jive innit and idiots ranting just like a few other places i know ahem ... now electrogrooooooooooove that is something else ...