NICK PAYTON..."Jazz died in 1959" ...thoughts of Chairman Nick:

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  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4353

    NICK PAYTON..."Jazz died in 1959" ...thoughts of Chairman Nick:

    "Jazz died in 1959.
    There maybe cool individuals who say they play Jazz, but ain’t shit cool about Jazz as a whole.
    Jazz died when cool stopped being hip.
    Jazz was a limited idea to begin with.
    Jazz is a label that was forced upon the musicians.
    The musicians should’ve never accepted that idea.
    Jazz ain’t shit.
    Jazz is incestuous.

    Jazz separated itself from American popular music.
    Big mistake.
    The music never recovered.
    Ornette tried to save Jazz from itself by taking the music back to its New Orleanian roots, but his efforts were too esoteric.
    Jazz died in 1959, that’s why Ornette tried to “Free Jazz” in 1960.
    Jazz is only cool if you don’t actually play it for a living.
    Jazz musicians have accepted the idea that it’s OK to be poor.
    John Coltrane is a bad cat, but Jazz stopped being cool in 1959.
    The very fact that so many people are holding on to this idea of what Jazz is supposed to be is exactly what makes it not cool.
    People are holding on to an idea that died long ago.
    Jazz, like the Buddha, is dead.
    Let it go, people, let it go.
    Paul Whiteman was the King of Jazz and someday all kings must fall.
    Jazz ain’t cool, it’s cold, like necrophilia.
    Stop fucking the dead and embrace the living.
    Jazz worries way too much about itself for it to be cool.
    Jazz died in 1959.
    The number one Jazz record is Miles Davis’ Kind Of Blue.
    Dave Brubeck’s Time Out was released in 1959.
    1959 was the coolest year in Jazz.
    Jazz is haunted by its own hungry ghosts.
    Let it die.
    You can be martyrs for an idea that died over a half a century if y’all want.
    Jazz has proven itself to be limited, and therefore, not cool.
    Lot’s wife turned to a pillar of salt from looking back.
    Jazz is dead.
    Miles ahead.
    Some may say that I’m no longer the same dude who recorded the album with Doc Cheatham.
    Correct: I’m not the same dude I was 14 years ago.
    Isn’t that the point?
    Our whole purpose on this planet is to evolve.
    The Golden Age of Jazz is gone.
    Let it go.
    Too many necrophiliacs in Jazz.
    You’re making my case for me.
    Some people may say we are defined by our limitations.
    I don’t believe in limitations, but yes, if you believe you are limited that will define you.
    Definitions are retrospective.
    And if you find yourself getting mad, it’s probably because you know Jazz is dead.
    Why get upset if what I’m saying doesn’t ring true?
    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t play Jazz.
    I play Postmodern New Orleans music.
    Louis Armstrong and Danny Barker play Traditional New Orleans Music.
    Ellis Marsalis and James Black play Modern New Orleans music.
    Kidd Jordan and Clyde Kerr play Avant-garde New Orleans music.
    Donald Harrison plays Neoclassical New Orleans music.
    I play Postmodern New Orleans music.
    I am a part of a lineage.
    I am a part of a blood line.
    My ancestors didn’t play Jazz, they played Traditional, Modern and Avant-garde New Orleans Music.
    I don’t play Jazz.
    I don’t let others define who I am.
    I am a Postmodern New Orleans musician.
    I create music for the heart and the head, for the beauty and the booty.
    The man who lets others define him is a dead man.
    With all due respect to the masters, they were victims of a colonialist mentality.
    Blacks have been conditioned for centuries to be grateful for whatever crumbs thrown to them.
    As a postmodern musician, it’s my duty to do better than my predecessors.
    To question, reexamine and redefine what it is that we do.
    They accepted it because they had to.
    Because my ancestors opened the door for me, I don’t have to accept it.
    Louis bowed and scraped so Miles could turn his back.
    It’s called evolution.
    It’s the colonialist mentality that glorifies being treated like a slave.
    There is nothing romantic about poor, scuffling Jazz musicians.
    Fuck that idea.
    It’s not cool.
    Jazz is a lie.
    America is a lie.
    Playing Jazz is like running on a treadmill: you may break a sweat, but ultimately you ain’t going nowhere.
    Some people may say we are limited.
    I say, we are as limited as we think.
    I am not limited.
    Jazz is a marketing ploy that serves an elite few.
    The elite make all the money while they tell the true artists it’s cool to be broke.
    Occupy Jazz!
    I am not speaking of so-called Jazz’s improvisational aspects.
    Improvisation by its very nature can never be passé, but mindsets are invariably deadly.
    Not knowing is the most you can ever know.
    It’s only when you don’t know that “everything” is possible.
    Jazz has nothing to do with music or being cool.
    It’s a marketing idea.
    A glaring example of what’s wrong with Jazz is how people fight over it.
    People are too afraid to let go of a name that is killing the spirit of the music.
    Life is bigger than music, unless you love and/or play Jazz.
    The art, or lack thereof, is just a reflection.
    Miles Davis personified cool and he hated Jazz.
    What is Jazz anyway?
    Life isn’t linear, it’s concentric.
    When you’re truly creating you don’t have time to think about what to call it.
    Who thinks of what they’ll name the baby while they’re fucking?
    Playing Jazz is like using the rear-view mirror to drive your car on the freeway.
    If you think Jazz is a style of music, you’ll never begin to understand.
    It’s ultimately on the musicians.
    People are fickle and follow the pack.
    Not enough artists willing to soldier for their shit.
    People follow trends and brands.
    So do musicians, sadly.
    Jazz is a brand.
    Jazz ain’t music, it’s marketing, and bad marketing at that.
    It has never been, nor will it ever be, music.
    Here lies Jazz (1916 – 1959).
    Too many musicians and not enough artists.
    I believe music to be more of a medium than a brand.
    Silence is music, too.
    You can’t practice art.
    In order for it to be true, one must live it.
    Existence is not contingent upon thought.
    It’s where you choose to put silence that makes sound music.
    Sound and silence equals music.
    Sometimes when I’m soloing, I don’t play shit.
    I just move blocks of silence around.
    The notes are an afterthought.
    Silence is what makes music sexy.
    Silence is cool."
    - Nicholas Payton (November 2011)


    Ahem..."As a postmodern musician, it’s my duty to do better than my predecessors." (sic)

    Hey, Good luck with THAT.

    POSTMODERN, POST EARLY, POST HASTE, POSTMAN PAT.


    BN.
  • aka Calum Da Jazbo
    Late member
    • Nov 2010
    • 9173

    #2
    ... post mortem more like .... or post mortem flatulence ...


    Trio '64
    According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

    Comment

    • burning dog
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 1515

      #3
      The jazz is dead theory can apply to most things It's the N'Orleans crap that gets me.


      EG.
      James. P. Johnson was born in New Brunswick, New Jersey, United States. The proximity to New York meant that the full cosmopolitan spectrum of the city's musical experience, from bars, to cabarets, to the symphony, were at the young Johnson's disposal.

      Guess he didn't play "jazz" then?

      Comment

      • Serial_Apologist
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 38184

        #4
        Good Evans

        Comment

        • Quarky
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 2684

          #5
          "I believe music to be more of a medium than a brand.
          Silence is music, too.
          You can’t practice art.
          In order for it to be true, one must live it
          ."

          Agree with what I can see as positive statements.

          Jazz is dead - long live Jazz - wherever it might be.
          Last edited by Quarky; 12-12-11, 20:33.

          Comment

          • charles t
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 592

            #6
            Some very articulate gems within...'sounds and silence' for instance.

            Yes, marketing has resulted in Kenny G. inhabiting some unbelievably prime real-estate.

            "Jazz is a lie.
            America is a lie."

            Better to stick with the more common apocrypha...wisdom...that:


            "In this life, the only helping hand you can count on, is when you are lowered into the grave."
            Last edited by charles t; 12-12-11, 22:11.

            Comment

            • Old Grumpy
              Full Member
              • Jan 2011
              • 3693

              #7
              ZZZZZZZZZZ!

              From his Wiki entry he looks like one to be avoided as far as his writing is concerned. Perhaps his music (whether Jazz or not) is better than his writing!

              Comment

              • burning dog
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 1515

                #8
                Too many necrophiliacs
                Takes one to know one?

                He seems to be complaining about the 'school' he is voluntarily a member of.

                Comment

                • Serial_Apologist
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 38184

                  #9
                  Originally posted by burning dog View Post
                  Too many necrophiliacs
                  Takes one to know one?

                  He seems to be complaining about the 'school' he is voluntarily a member of.
                  That's the conclusion I reached too

                  Comment

                  • Ian Thumwood
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4361

                    #10
                    Setting aside the rubbish poem and it's bizarre sentiments, I don't have a problem with Payton's music which is definately more human than Wynton's. The only time I saw him was in a Roy Haynes led band which also included the exceptional Kenny Garrett. I don't recall his playing being that "Retro" when I saw him but an album like his "Dear Louis" is demonstrative that he can re-work older and established material into something that is really of interest. I don't think Payton has ever recorded something that I would consider to be "essential" though. Payton is perhaps the last in a line of Neo's that started with Wynton and went through Terance Blanchard and on to Wallace Roney and he is probably the least interesting of the four although I find him infinately preferable to Blanchard whose writing may be worthy but whose tone deviates too far away from a genuine jazz sound to my ears. Several years ago there were numerous American jazz fans getting extremely excited about "A tale of God's will" and this featured in numerous "best of the year" polls. I think that these kind of players definately have far more respect and a larger following in the States than over here. Maybe this is something Charles could confirm? I suppose in this country there are the likes of Abram Wilson, Guy Barker and Steve Fishwick who pursue a very similar agenda although I seem to recall the latter coming in for some fulsome praise on the old board for issuing discs which actually tried to look like on Blue Notes as well as trying to sound like them!

                    I think that the technical skill that once set Wynton apart from his contemporaries is not applicable these days. Interestingly, I feel that there is still a great deal of brilliant jazz trumpet coming out of the States which demonstrates the cailbre of the current crop of "Modern jazz" players. Someone like Roy Hargrove makes this kind of music sound very much of our time and has a harmonic language which makes alot of his work compelling. When fronting a big band, he can still tip his hat towards Dizzy, Chet and a host of other influences whilst being his own man. The stuff he recorded with Brecker and Hancock is as adventurous as anything produced in this oeuvre from the 60's. You could also add the likes of Brad Goode, Stephen Scott and Ambrose Akinmusire to the list - the latter having the potential to be in the calibre and as of such musical significance as Clifford Brown, Freddie Hubbard, Woody Shaw or Lee Morgan. I am really excited by the music he is creating in a way that I have not been since the time I first encountered Dave Douglas who I would consider the most original and consistant jazz trumpeter of the last 40 years. (But Douglas is always exploring different possibilities and never seems comfortable to rest on his laurels. ) Pitched against these kinds of musicians you almost feel obliged to be indifferent to someone who remains sceptical of what jazz has achieved since 1959 but I don't feel that Payton's conservatism is any worse than some of the others.

                    Comment

                    • Quarky
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 2684

                      #11
                      ""Jazz died in 1959"

                      May be this rant is a roundabout justification for his latest Album "Bitches", which is very commercial, and which is being featured heavily on Jazz FM:

                      As a leading voice in American popular music, the Grammy Award-winning Nicholas Payton is a multi-instrumentalist, vocalist, composer, producer, arranger, essayist, and social activist who defies musical and artistic categories. All the while, he honors the tradition of what he terms “postmodern New Orleans music,” as well as the spirit of Black American Music, of which he states, “There are no fields, per se. There are lineages.”

                      Comment

                      • geofflikesmusic

                        #12
                        Nick Payton has caused the death of jazz, with his latest album ugh.

                        Comment

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