Miles Davis - the life of... (proposed Hollywood film)

[burning dog]

MD used the same trick Ellington used to keep good musicians in his band .... he paid them. Amiable eccentrics who run off with the money don't do so well on that score.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Not sure about that BD...My fav Miles story is that after he was beaten up outside Birdland by the NY Police, Nat Adderly stood in for him with the sextet (Trane, Cannon, Bill Evans etc) until he somewhat recovered - almost two weeks. Miles then phoned Nat and asked him how much he wanted? Nat said, "Nothing Miles, just a joy to play with your band!", Miles said, "C'mon name a figure". Nat said, "Ok, call it a $100 a week as a token ". Miles..."YOU ain't fking worth that!... and slammed the phone down.

Miles eh?

BN (I wouldn't have him in my golf club)

[burning dog]

I didn't say he paid them well BN! At least he was mean on purpose.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

There used to be a wonderful bootleg tape somewhere on the internet of Ray Charles's band (inc. Blue Mitchell, Johnny Coles etc) demanding a pay rise! Ray.."Do you KNOW the bills I've got to pay!" NOW RAY WAS CHEAP!

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

There is such a thing as a Jazzbo, I think?...

[burning dog]

HERBIE HANCOCK: When I first joined Miles' band, I had no idea that I had a particular identity that I could say, "Herbie Hancock's identity on the piano." But by the time I left Miles' band, I had something that I could kind of call my own. But that wasn't all I got out of Miles. I really consider him to be my mentor. Miles told us that he paid us to search for new things, to explore territory, to explore new territory, not to rest on your laurels, not to just stay in the comfort zone.

[Tenor Freak]

Richard - no, I never met Miles, I've only read various books about him. My censored remark was aimed at his treatment of women, which was particularly vile. I still listen to his recordings, though.

Merry Xmas

[Ian Thumwood]

Ray Charles (it is said, by Ray himself) tried to push T.Bone Walker down an open lift shaft after TB beat him at a poker session; Philly Joe Jones, after being given a helping office job at Keepnews at Riverside, then sold their hot off the press "hit" albums all around Harlem..."NO wonder I never got any fkg royalties!" - Canonball Addrerly: Sonny Clark was reduced to collecting/stealing beer botles to get enough for breakfast and support his habit: Kenny Dorham often pulled a knife on Horace Silver and threatened to beat the crap out of him (according to Blakey); Frank Morgan stole studio microphones; Art Pepper was an armed robber....and on and on...WHY, they should have been IMMEDIATELY EJECTED from the Jazz Fraternity! Call the cops, Alert the Daily Mail![B]GROW UP!

None of the music they produced makes this behaviour acceptable. You are defending the undefendable.

The point of the thread was concerning a proposed film about Miles. Why would anyone want to sit through a film about a musician who was totally objectionable as a person? It is not even as if his life-story is that interesting to begin with.

[Serial_Apologist]

None of the music they produced makes this behaviour acceptable. You are defending the undefendable.

The point of the thread was concerning a proposed film about Miles. Why would anyone want to sit through a film about a musician who was totally objectionable as a person? It is not even as if his life-story is that interesting to begin with.

Oh I'd think it'd be interesting from the pov of the different contexts he operated within and shaped for starters; then his upbringing, early tutelage, relationships with Diz and Bird, cold turkeying his way out of heroin, forming the famous quintet of 1964-69, the relationship with Columbia and Teo Macero, the interest in Hendrix, attitude to the British guys taken on in '69 .... need one go on?

[charles t]

The way this thread began, it seemed there would be mucho fawning over the possibility of the Miles flick. And that would be it. But thanks to Bruce and others the bubble was bursted.

I've heard Miles in person and there were those moments when time stood still (Valentine, for instance).

Musically, his contributions will live on - the same as Beethoven and those cats.

Personally, you (metaphor) would not want to be in the same room with him...Always alert for a sucker punch.

Just the way he was.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

IAN # "It is not even as if his life-story is that interesting to begin with."

WELL, (as Gerry Mulligan once played)..."WHAT IS THERE TO SAY" !!!

....Miles led a pretty DULL life!!! He could have been a rural QS!

IAN , priceless.

BN.

Bruce, agree (only from what I have read) about Miles' attitude to/and use of women...was there some repressed dark secret there? Who knows? Hazel Scott once said the best way of dealing with him (as" he never really grew up") was to take no crap and slap him down hard if he got out of line, then he was as good as gold..."little Miles". Still think Coltrane's, "Miles can be a real prick at times" is the best summing up...but he retained a great affection for him.

Merry Xmas.

[Ian Thumwood]

IAN # "It is not even as if his life-story is that interesting to begin with."

....Miles led a pretty DULL life!!! He could have been a rural QS!

IAN , priceless.

.

A film about Miles would be yet another effort about a jazz musician affected by drugs just like countless others. Don't know why Hollywood insists of perpetuating these stereotypes although atleast it is more realistic than something like "The Benny Goodman Story" which played fast and loose with the facts. After the Tavernier and Eastwood films what else is there that would be added to the genre of bio-pics about jazz musicians, fictional or otherwise? Furthermore Miles' reputation that transcends the music. As I said before, most of the films about musicians / composers these days prefer to select as their subject matter a character who has succumbed to drugs / drink physical abuse (as in the case with the Tina Turner film) to the extent that they are all variations on the same theme. Even if S.A's examples of cherry-picking the musical highlights of his career, I doubt if it would make great cinema and would probably baffle most film-goers.

If you wanted to make a film about a jazz musician, I think it would make much better cinema to choose a subject who genuinely did something different or whose lifestyle was genuinely alternative or counter-culture to the times. Someone like Jelly Roll Morton would be an excellent choice (I believe that a TV film about his life was made in the 80's but have never seen it) or someone like Mezz Mezzrow who considered himself to be black. Fletcher Henderson's life was far more interesting than Miles with whom he shared a similar background and his involvement in record production with "Black Swan", Black intellectualism /academia, band-leading and then providing the musical impetus to take Benny Goodman to the kind of stardom that eluded him. He also experienced a radical personality change after a car crash. As soon as you move into the Be-bop area the drugs -story takes over and the film would end up being no different from any other that has been made. Going back even further, James Reece Europe's story would make another fascinating exploration of how a black musician was instrumental in kick-starting the dance craze, then got involved in forming a trade union for coloured musicians before leading an orchestra during the First World War to great acclaim. On top of this, when fame did appear within his grasp, he was murdered by one of his musicians. I could go on.

I must admit that I do enjoy films but the way cinema has treated jazz has, generally, been pretty lazy. A film about another drug-addict musician, albeit someone has toweringly great as Miles Davis, probably won't add much to an already uninspired oeuvre. Can't say that I'd want to watch a film about QS-ing either. Even "Grand Designs" is frequently too close of home. (I blame the architects.)

[old khayyam]

(IT talks too much; BNR talks too loud)

I would not let snippets of information about someone's private life put me off their music. Even if it were unsavoury, it would simply fascinate me all the more. For instance, i think heroin is a disgusting scourge of the human race, but there's no way on God's earth i will ever deny the genius of Miles (the only danger being that some will attribute his genius to the heroin).

On which point, has anyone noticed the link between the subjects of all the above-mentioned biopics?

[geofflikesmusic]

(IT talks too much; BNR talks too loud)

I would not let snippets of information about someone's private life put me off their music. Even if it were unsavoury, it would simply fascinate me all the more. For instance, i think heroin is a disgusting scourge of the human race, but there's no way on God's earth i will ever deny the genius of Miles (the only danger being that some will attribute his genius to the heroin).

On which point, has anyone noticed the link between the subjects of all the above-mentioned biopics?

I'm not sure you could listen to much jazz from the 50s/60s if you excluded those musicians that were involved in Heroin or some other kind of illicit drug use ;)

[old khayyam]

I'm not sure you could listen to much jazz from the 50s/60s if you excluded those musicians that were involved in Heroin or some other kind of illicit drug use ;)

Indeed. Or more precisely, each of the above-named biopics has heroin in it, or as you say, some other degenerative compound. So what does that tell us?