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[Alyn_Shipton]

In what way was the principal choir class of the Leipzig Thomasschule, consisting of the best 12 to 16 singers, which Bach directed himself in alternate weeks at the Thomaskirche and the Nicolaikirche, from 1723 until shortly before he temporarily left in 1789 not "what we would now call a choir"? We also know from Bach's writing that (apart from his most ambitious works that required larger vocal forces) he thought "three or four voices to a part were ideal". (Bach Dokumente, i; Schriftstücke von der Hand Johann Sebastian Bachs, ed. Neumann and Schulze, 1963, p. 60)

[Bryn]

In what way was the principal choir class of the Leipzig Thomasschule, consisting of the best 12 to 16 singers, which Bach directed himself in alternate weeks at the Thomaskirche and the Nicolaikirche, from 1723 until shortly before he temporarily left in 1789 not "what we would now call a choir"? We also know from Bach's writing that (apart from his most ambitious works that required larger vocal forces) he thought "three or four voices to a part were ideal". (Bach Dokumente, i; Schriftstücke von der Hand Johann Sebastian Bachs, ed. Neumann and Schulze, 1963, p. 60)

1963, eh? I think you might find that musicological investigations regarding the voices available to and used by Bach have advanced somewhat since then.

[Ein Heldenleben]

1963, eh? I think you might find that musicological investigations regarding the voices available to and used by Bach have advanced somewhat since then.

This New York Times review of Andrew Parrott’s book ism a good summary .

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/25/books/music-cutting-the-bach-choir-down-to-size.html

Seems to me the argument turns on the tricky unquantifiable issue of prevailing sickness rates amongst 18th century German church singers. Were they of Kaufman-like fragility Rifkin and Parrott are probably right.

[RichardB]

the principal choir class of the Leipzig Thomasschule, consisting of the best 12 to 16 singers

... which was almost certainly not the ensemble used for cantatas and other "concerted" works! Parrott's arguments - both in his The Essential Bach Choir of 2000 and in numerous articles published since then - don't depend to any decisive extent on sickness rates, but on many other factors also, which add up to a pretty convincing circumstantial case. To which one might now add the evidence of performances and recordings using one voice per part and how well they work. But we've discussed this on other threads. The point of the argument here is that using instruments and forces of a composer's own time is a valuable starting point for understanding the music and how it might have sounded, and, more reliably, avoiding how it definitely didn't sound.