R3 hates jazz and is trying to kill off jazz on the radio

[handsomefortune]

mmmmmmm rhubarb - saw some yesterday actually. delish!

watching the coloured circular thingies mutating, whilst waiting patiently for the iplayer to unstick.

oh come now - doesn't everybody spend more and more time doing exactly this? there's even a separate thread about this problem, faulty performance has become so commonplace.

What must Mr Handsome think??? he doesnt know because he's at work but i think he'd agree that the tabloidists should be semi naked.

especially, since many who wish to feature in newspapers can only do so in JUST their pants, (plus a descriptive caption). the levenson thing provides the perfect visual opportunity to balance the unfairness books! is possibly a rather interesting take on the 'transparency of the media'!

so, mr h would totally support my simple request but i shall ask him shortly.

however, we have both been up all night on 24 hr call out, (as of friday) ....so, don't expect my usual levels of ..... slurry!

so, be off with you, back to your banjo serial apologist!

[Serial_Apologist]

mmmmmmm rhubarb - saw some yesterday actually. delish!

watching the coloured circular thingies mutating, whilst waiting patiently for the iplayer to unstick.

oh come now - doesn't everybody spend more and more time doing exactly this? there's even a separate thread about this problem, faulty performance has become so commonplace.

What must Mr Handsome think??? he doesnt know because he's at work but i think he'd agree that the tabloidists should be semi naked.

especially, since many who wish to feature in newspapers can only do so in JUST their pants, (plus a descriptive caption). the levenson thing provides the perfect visual opportunity to balance the unfairness books! is possibly a rather interesting take on the 'transparency of the media'!

so, mr h would totally support my simple request but i shall ask him shortly.

however, we have both been up all night on 24 hr call out, (as of friday) ....so, don't expect my usual levels of ..... slurry!

so, be off with you, back to your banjo serial apologist!

Yesyesyesyesyes.... (scurries away into dark corner)

[handsomefortune]

ok, you can come out now serial apologist!

mr h says 'yes, definitely an appropriate alteration to leveNson presentation detail, especially appropriate in the circumstances'.

let's hope it catches on eh! roger wright might need nakedhumiliatingness too....? it might just shake some action over disatisfaction with jazz time slots!

golly - i'll have to stay up all night more often, at this rate! :~)

[Serial_Apologist]

let's hope it catches on eh! roger wright might need nakedhumiliatingness too....?

Shhh! - Cavatina might hear!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Shhh! - Cavatina might hear!

well that is what one deserves for mixing so many metaphors in one thread .....

[Serial_Apologist]

well that is what one deserves for mixing so many metaphors in one thread .....

[old khayyam]

...my feeling is that Jazz's natural environment is not a classical music station.

Long before this forum existed, one poster identified R3 as a station dedicated to serious music. That, to me, seems the perfect remit. After all, there is a jazz section on this forum. Coincidentally, it would also dispose of all that 'goodtime' jazz we've been hearing.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

...yep jazz is serious ..... under-represented on the station and consigned to the night hours ... Squealer hates Jazz

[Ian Thumwood]

Long before this forum existed, one poster identified R3 as a station dedicated to serious music. That, to me, seems the perfect remit. After all, there is a jazz section on this forum. Coincidentally, it would also dispose of all that 'goodtime' jazz we've been hearing.

I would be worried by your definitions of jazz in particular your comment about "disposing of good time jazz." What do you mean by this? Assuming that you mean Trad, I don't think this gets much serious consideration on Radio 3. Even requests for "Trad" are remarkably rare on JRR. As far as earlier forms of jazz, I would strongly object to anything Pre-Parker or music deemed as "popular" being thrown out. Where would you draw the line? Would this exclude records by the likes of Clarence Williams with Louis Armstrong? What about the likes of Fats Waller or even big bands from the 1930's ? Would you exclude 1940's R n' B and how about musicians who have enjoyed more popular appeal such as Weather Report, pat Metheny or Jamie Cullum.

[old khayyam]

You seem to have extended my use of the word "goodtime" to include "anything...popular".

It was a casual phrase, IT, of which i hoped the gist would be caught. I'm no expert on the current jazz output as the little i've heard, as said, is not my cup of tea. Though its clear they would rather play Fats/Armstrong than, say, Alice Coltrane.

Your reply highlights, however, the need for maybe a number of specialist jazz programmes. All within the remit of a station dedicated to Serious Music.

[Serial_Apologist]

Some of what Anthony Braxton played with George Lewis in the 70s could be dscribed as "good time" at the same time as it is avant-garde; likewise Threadgill's Air trio's reworkings of Ragtime; and there is little I can think of more entertainingly hilarious than side 1 of Elton Dean's LP "The Bologna Tapes", taken from a performance which was completely improvised. Where does one draw the line? What may be funny to me might be deadly serious to you. The word "serious" is heavily loaded. I can remember Keith Tippett coming up to us as we waited outside the Colston Hall, where he was about to appear in part 2 of a concert whose first part was Prime Time, and complaining about a radio interview in which the interviewer had asked what differences Keith saw between his kind of music and "serious music". "As I said to him, I consider all my music to be serious. In Germany I did a gig with Maggie and Julie. Maggie and Julie were doing their knockabout stuff out front, but what I was doing meanwhile was deadly serious!" I couldn't help noticing the trace of a glint in Keith's eyes as he said this, though! While much of the stuff I come across from young musicians these days seems pretty much lacking in humour, either in their music itself (though I wouldn't exclude quirkiness) or in its presentation, I think there's always been a broad spread encompassing the purely entertaining (Diz's "Swing Low Sweet Cadillac" and that 1953 Paris concert in general) and the deadly in earnest, (Massey Hall, though that has its moments too!). I don't think one can take the good time out of jazz completely, though, ever.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

I don't think one can take the good time out of jazz ...

absolutely not .... there is jazz and then there is commercial schmaltz and there is just plain bad stuff ....

[Pilchardman]

I don't think one can take the good time out of jazz completely, though, ever.

I don't think one can take the good time out of music.

I'm still not sure what old khayyam means. Let me see if I've got this right. "Good time" doesn't (necessarily) mean pre 40s, nor does it (necessarily) mean popular. It might mean Pops' Hot Fives and Sevens, though?

[barber olly]

absolutely not .... there is 1 jazz and then there is 2 commercial schmaltz and there is 3 just plain bad stuff ....

For much of my life I have tried to broaden my musical tates with jazz. I remember a nice line delivered by Barbara Flynn in The Beiderbeck Affair say in there were three types of jazz 'hot jazz', 'cool jazz' and 'when does the tune start?'. Now whilst my ear can attune to most things some jazz comes out a bit strident, piercing and frankly tuneless. Back in the sixties jazz was described in three genres, trad (which was OK in small doses), mainstream (OK) and modern (which appealed to me most). At that time jazz was 50 or so years old, so what was modern then ain't now. Increasingly now I get quite p...d off by jazz afficionados going on about how great jazz is but half the time I haven't a clue about who or what you are extolling the virtues of as they actually appear to trash an awful lot of what century of jazz has produced. So Cal or any other of you jazzers please in your considered, experienced opinion an example of 1 jazz 2 commercial schmaltz and 3 just plain bad stuff. Please don't try to fob me off with any of this if you need to ask you can't possibly understand stuff - I want examples!

[Quarky]

I don't think one can take the good time out of jazz completely, though, ever.

Absolutely. But what I think is possibly significant in the context of R3 is that there is a great deal more "good time" that naturally occurs in Jazz, even its more esoteric contemporary varieties, than exists in most classical music (including contemporary "classical" music).

It's difficult to compare one genre with another, where there are so many sub-species in each genre that overlap with each other, but if it possible to generalise, I would say the Jazz, as a mix of cerebral and heart/hip, is much more weighted towards heart/hip than classical music, which starts off from cerebral considerations.

That is why Jazz is such a hard sell to most Classical fans. And that is why, as Calum has pointed out, it need to be emphasised to the powers that be that Radio 3 is not just a Classical music station (although classical music is the main shareholder).