Artie Shaw JL 27.viii.11

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

one for me, i love Artie Shaw

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

I grew up surrounded by the music of Benny Goodman and when I first heard Artie Shaw's records I was really surprised as a teenager as they were actually pretty good. However, I think Shaw has undergone something of a renaissance over the last 10-15 years at the expense of Goodman and perhaps the fact that Shaw was capable of producing an awful lot of drivel has been over-looked. Shaw's earlier bands benefited from having Nick Fatool and Buddy Rich on drums both of whom were a marked improvement on Gene Krupa at the time and tracks like "Traffic jam" probably represent the cloest that many white bands ever got to matching the hell-for-leather excitement of Chick Webb. At his best, Shaw turned out some terrific records and had one of the best white bands along with Goodman and Herman.

Shaw is very much an enigma. He commissioned "Third Stream" works in the mid-forties before the term was even coined and employed the likes of Ray Conniff to transform his post-strings big band of the same era in to one that was pretty modern without slavishly being committed to Be-bop. like Goodman, i think his 1940's bands were superior to the ones of the earlier decade which always seem far more popular. Goodman's band of the early 40's was exceptional and the lack of availability of the music on CD only serves to make their music even more neglected. However, I do feel that Shaw's band of the 30's has dated for more than Goodmans and the likes of Helen Forest and the other "pop" singers are dire in the extreme. I can't stand the "canaries" of that era and Shaw was as guilty of employing them as many. Despite his musical inclinations, Shaw's bands were always leaning towards being commercial even though he employed capable arrangers like Jerry Gray. "Stardust" is the definitive version of this tune - no other is desirable. The small group "Grammercy Five" are great fun (all three editions -even with Guarnierri's harpsichord) but pall in comparison with Goodman's sublime trios and quartets which are on a higher artistic plain.

Like you, I am a fan but probably a but more guarded in my enthusiasm.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

chacun à son propre goût

[handsomefortune]

anyone else struggling with the iplayer for 'jazz library', this week?

[Serial_Apologist]

anyone else struggling with the iplayer for 'jazz library', this week?

Seems to be working OK now, handsome.

[Ian Thumwood]

Enjoyed being reacquainted with much of the music although hearing the brilliant "Krazy Kat" for the first time this afternoon really reminded me of the kind of charts Gerry Mulligan wrote for Gene Krupa. Shame this track was faded out just as it got really good!! The earlier tracks confirmed my recollection that Shaw's bands were pretty tight but I would have to say i still prefer Goodman even though Shaw seemed to "get" more modern approaches to the music more than Benny.

Shame that more of the mid-forties material didn't get chosen. It would have been nice to hear tracks like this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB01v9auU4
A&feature=fvsr


The original of this was always a track I enjoyed - shame that this recreation isn't a patch on the original:-

/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPTJnzVR-5g


I don't know how much the likes of Calum would agree but so many white bands went right off the rails in the period 40/41 especially when they added strings. Artie Shaw seemed by far the most successful in this respect and something like "Concerto for clarient" and "The Blues" always struck me as good attempts to mix the genres. However, hearing "Frenesi" again I didn't appreciate just how little jazz there was in the performance. Not a patch on Gray's arrangement of "Stardust" and comes across as sounding like something from a corny black and white film of the era. Intriguing to hear the avuncular Alan Barnes pick up on the same flaws as Gunther Schuller in his assessment of "Concerto for clarinet" but far less critical. It still sounds fun despite the stitched-together form.

What I would say is that music Shaw produced in the 30's hasn't dated quite as well as some of the work by other big bands of that era. It would be difficult to imagine that this music was being performed at the same time that Basie broke on the scene. However, I dare say Shaw's bands were much better as a musical unit in comparison with the likes of the Dorseys, the woeful Harry James or Glenn Miller and reflected his perfectionist ideals. For many people the music of a bandleader like Artie Shaw defines the Swing Era whilst at the same time I can appreciate why the fans of be-bop saw these groups in a less than favourable light. The truth lies somewhere in the middle and Artie Shaw's clarinet playing and orchestra is definately of merit from a jazz perspective.

I am not sure from memory whether Woody Herman has ever been the subject of "Jazz Library" but once he started to assemble the various Herds I feel his orchestras set the bar for the other white bandleaders to follow. The "Band that played the blues" was pretty average but as alluded in today's programme, it was Herman who managed the absorb the impact of Modern Jazz far more successfully than his contemporaries as is somewhat overlooked as a clarinetist too. I think the Swing Era reached an apogee once Herman introduced the Herds. Whilst I am much more partisan to the great black bands of the 30's / 40's, Goodman, Shaw and Herman were amongst the very best of the white bands and were frequently too good for their fellow bandleaders to live with in my opinion.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Ian
Herman has not yet featured in Jazz Library, but now we are down to two new programmes a month in the midnight slot, (the other two will be repeats from October onwards) the chances to cover as many subjects as before are halved. If you wish to make any observations about this to Radio 3, the please do so, and copy it to the programme's email address.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the sound quality is ropey on the iPlayer

but great prog, ta Alyn and Alan

[Ian Thumwood]

The interesting thing about many of the recordings Shaw issued in the 30's is the way that some of the harmonies seem to resolve in some of their charts. Even on up-beat numbers, I feel that there is a strange of melancholy in the writing irrespective of doom-laden pieces like "Nightmare." As commented, it was a pretty sombre theme tune and I hadn't noticed until yesterday how little the harmony seems to change in this tune.

A lot of the white jazz in the 1920's seem to employ really unexpected cadences which make sense but seem unsettling to ears more used to the "smoothed out" approach to chords which became more prevalent in the thirties. You can hear a lot of this oddness within Bix's music. The darkness of the arrangements that Shaw performed is of a different quality but it still sounds a marked contrast to the more orthodox use of harmony employed by the likes of Fletcher Henderson for Goodman.

Here is a link to the wicki page regarding Jerry Gray who arranged many of these charts. I hadn't fully appreciated just how many he also wrote for Miller but note the comments about the attitude towards music between Shaw and Miller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Gray_(arranger)

Shame there is no information as to what the Braxton-esque looking instrument is in the photograph. I think it is a contra-bass clarinet and it looks like something I once saw John Surman play.

[johncorrigan]

Great programme - along with Bechet my favourite jazzer - that soaring clarinet is one of my favourite sounds in music!

[Ian Thumwood]

John

I agree- it is one of the most potent devices in earlier forms of jazz and would have to add that I am quirte partial to the sound some arrangers like Henderson and Redman employed of using a clarinet choir. Shame that this device seemed to go out of fashion from the late 1930's when Henderson's music reached the peak. That said, I think Bechet's "Blue Horizon" would have to rank as one of the very greatest clarinet performances in the history of the music.

[handsomefortune]

'second chorus'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUpd7pqnESk

and with fred conducting shaw's orchestra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQ9HvABrNg&feature=related

[Serial_Apologist]

'second chorus'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUpd7pqnESk

and with fred conducting shaw's orchestra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQ9H...eature=related

Early Rap?

Glad somebody's not listening to "Eligah" on the Proms tonight.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

along with 'beguine', not featured but wonderful ....

see also

[Alyn_Shipton]

Calum
Shaw's Moonglow is one of the interesting recordings of that tune. For my money the best from this period is Cab Calloway's from 1933. The opening clarinet solo is by Arville Harris, but the thing to listen out for is Eddie Barefield's alto, from approx 1.15....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFaNbCwmojw