Jazzrook / SA
Just picking up on this thread, I have to admit that I am not really religious and have a somewhat distanced view of religion in music. The point I was tryng to make that the response of Western , Classical music in addressing spiritualism / religion has , so far, been more successful than in jazz. I would reiterate the point about Pharoah Sander's music being accessible, despite the coruscating nature of some of his playing. It has always struck me as being entry level avant garde and the relatively simple nature of what is admittedly does well means that his music does have a broad appeal. Like so much of any jazz which takes it's cues from John Coltrane, there is a spiritual nature in the music albeit I struggle to hear any gospel influence in his music whatsoever. I am not convinved that he was really as successful as someone like Yusef Lateef who I always believed had seriously studied Eastern music and had published books outlining the kind of scales derived from Asia which could be used in jazz. The fact that musicians as diverse as John Hicks, Eddie Henderson, Elvin Jones, Sonny Sharrock and Bobby McFerrin were happy to work with Sanders is suggestive to me that we was more of a musician that Bluesnik has alluded to. When it comes to religious music in jazz, surely Ellington's serioisly underrated Sacred Music must still remain the apogee ?
I have heard Earl Wild before but had to look him up on line to find out more about him. I am afraid that I am a little bit uncomfortable with this kind of stuff where other composer's music is re-cast as a virtuoso piano composition. It is clever and technically demanding but you find quite a lot of Gershwin's music subject to this kind of treatment. It always srikes me as being a little bit camp. Oddily enough, the pianist Xiayin Wang who is the pianist on the Scriabin disc you have ordered which would appear to be the same Naxos CD I have. Jazzrook will love this! The first two tracks are modelled on Chopin (Opus 1 written when he was 14) but the disc goes on to include some of his later work. I totally concur with Joseph's comparison with Coltrane which I think is a very good analogy. Scriabin was ploughing his own field for ideas and , by the later stages, the musical language had ditched pretty melodies for something very abstract and unique. It represents the point at which Romantic classical piano at reached it's conclusion and pointed towards a future beyond Impressionism and 2nd Viennese School . There is an obsession with some really dark and rich chords which I feel makes him unique.
I have a collection of his 10nr sonatas which underscores the journey of his music with the No. 1 being very nuch influenced by Chopin whereas from Opus 5 onwards, the music becomes increasing more abstract. I think you probably need super-human qualities to perform this music as even the simpler pieces are technically demanding. I can just about work my way through a few of the simpler Preludes but the harmonies are like walking on eggshells so that sight-reading is a real struggle. i would have to practice these pieces for months to iron out mistakes and I think the great thing about the recording of Ziayin Wang is that she saves you the hassle. I can just about get through Scarlatti and I wonder if there are many of composers who were working at such impossibly high technical levels. His later work has the same intensity as late Coltrane - the more I think abut Josepth's comment, the more I think he is correct. Alexander Scriabin, a composer wioring in the early 20th century for the benefit of jazz fans 100 years later! (The late Chick Corea was a massive fan.)
Just picking up on this thread, I have to admit that I am not really religious and have a somewhat distanced view of religion in music. The point I was tryng to make that the response of Western , Classical music in addressing spiritualism / religion has , so far, been more successful than in jazz. I would reiterate the point about Pharoah Sander's music being accessible, despite the coruscating nature of some of his playing. It has always struck me as being entry level avant garde and the relatively simple nature of what is admittedly does well means that his music does have a broad appeal. Like so much of any jazz which takes it's cues from John Coltrane, there is a spiritual nature in the music albeit I struggle to hear any gospel influence in his music whatsoever. I am not convinved that he was really as successful as someone like Yusef Lateef who I always believed had seriously studied Eastern music and had published books outlining the kind of scales derived from Asia which could be used in jazz. The fact that musicians as diverse as John Hicks, Eddie Henderson, Elvin Jones, Sonny Sharrock and Bobby McFerrin were happy to work with Sanders is suggestive to me that we was more of a musician that Bluesnik has alluded to. When it comes to religious music in jazz, surely Ellington's serioisly underrated Sacred Music must still remain the apogee ?
I have heard Earl Wild before but had to look him up on line to find out more about him. I am afraid that I am a little bit uncomfortable with this kind of stuff where other composer's music is re-cast as a virtuoso piano composition. It is clever and technically demanding but you find quite a lot of Gershwin's music subject to this kind of treatment. It always srikes me as being a little bit camp. Oddily enough, the pianist Xiayin Wang who is the pianist on the Scriabin disc you have ordered which would appear to be the same Naxos CD I have. Jazzrook will love this! The first two tracks are modelled on Chopin (Opus 1 written when he was 14) but the disc goes on to include some of his later work. I totally concur with Joseph's comparison with Coltrane which I think is a very good analogy. Scriabin was ploughing his own field for ideas and , by the later stages, the musical language had ditched pretty melodies for something very abstract and unique. It represents the point at which Romantic classical piano at reached it's conclusion and pointed towards a future beyond Impressionism and 2nd Viennese School . There is an obsession with some really dark and rich chords which I feel makes him unique.
I have a collection of his 10nr sonatas which underscores the journey of his music with the No. 1 being very nuch influenced by Chopin whereas from Opus 5 onwards, the music becomes increasing more abstract. I think you probably need super-human qualities to perform this music as even the simpler pieces are technically demanding. I can just about work my way through a few of the simpler Preludes but the harmonies are like walking on eggshells so that sight-reading is a real struggle. i would have to practice these pieces for months to iron out mistakes and I think the great thing about the recording of Ziayin Wang is that she saves you the hassle. I can just about get through Scarlatti and I wonder if there are many of composers who were working at such impossibly high technical levels. His later work has the same intensity as late Coltrane - the more I think abut Josepth's comment, the more I think he is correct. Alexander Scriabin, a composer wioring in the early 20th century for the benefit of jazz fans 100 years later! (The late Chick Corea was a massive fan.)
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