Serious question.

[Serial_Apologist]

Here's my dilemma - though it could well be our dilemma.

What does one do when, confronted by an album release of previously unreleased historic recordings which give wrong names in line-ups? I mention this, having yesterday come across an otherwise highly welcome release of a BBC broadcast from the 1970s on a usually dependable label, of which there were a couple of tracks to be found on Youtube.

Personal distinctiveness was an important part of the music at that stage - one does not often, unlike today, experience difficulties in ascribing what one hears being improvised to particular players, the leading lights back then were generally immediately identifiable within a matter of seconds. I am absolutely certain as to who it is I am hearing soloing in these two tracks, and it isn't anyone listed in the liner to the album. Who was doing what, contributing at given times to the history of the music, is more important than just a matter of copyright in jazz, in my opinion, though from a musician's point of view it is also important, obviously. What, I am asking the wise heads hereabouts, does one do? State ones opinions, or keep schtum, either on grounds of potential actionability for misrepresentation on my part, or put it all down to unintended errors and hope the world and its creators will just be happy with what has gone out?

Any views on this are most welcome.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Here's my dilemma - though it could well be our dilemma.

What does one do when, confronted by an album release of previously unreleased historic recordings which give wrong names in line-ups? I mention this, having yesterday come across an otherwise highly welcome release of a BBC broadcast from the 1970s on a usually dependable label, of which there were a couple of tracks to be found on Youtube.

Personal distinctiveness was an important part of the music at that stage - one does not often, unlike today, experience difficulties in ascribing what one hears being improvised to particular players, the leading lights back then were generally immediately identifiable within a matter of seconds. I am absolutely certain as to who it is I am hearing soloing in these two tracks, and it isn't anyone listed in the liner to the album. Who was doing what, contributing at given times to the history of the music, is more important than just a matter of copyright in jazz, in my opinion, though from a musician's point of view it is also important, obviously. What, I am asking the wise heads hereabouts, does one do? State ones opinions, or keep schtum, either on grounds of potential actionability for misrepresentation on my part, or put it all down to unintended errors and hope the world and its creators will just be happy with what has gone out?

Any views on this are most welcome.

I would write to the record company / producers with your corrections and your evidence for them. Unfortunately being “absolutely certain “ isn’t enough . Incidentally there is nothing “actionable” in an honest attempt to correct an error.

[cloughie]

Here's my dilemma - though it could well be our dilemma.

What does one do when, confronted by an album release of previously unreleased historic recordings which give wrong names in line-ups? I mention this, having yesterday come across an otherwise highly welcome release of a BBC broadcast from the 1970s on a usually dependable label, of which there were a couple of tracks to be found on Youtube.

Personal distinctiveness was an important part of the music at that stage - one does not often, unlike today, experience difficulties in ascribing what one hears being improvised to particular players, the leading lights back then were generally immediately identifiable within a matter of seconds. I am absolutely certain as to who it is I am hearing soloing in these two tracks, and it isn't anyone listed in the liner to the album. Who was doing what, contributing at given times to the history of the music, is more important than just a matter of copyright in jazz, in my opinion, though from a musician's point of view it is also important, obviously. What, I am asking the wise heads hereabouts, does one do? State ones opinions, or keep schtum, either on grounds of potential actionability for misrepresentation on my part, or put it all down to unintended errors and hope the world and its creators will just be happy with what has gone out?

Any views on this are most welcome.

Politely ask whether they are sure about the line ups - state your case for who you think is there and ask for their views.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks, EH and Cloughie. It is possible that those who did the liner notes were going on publicity for the gig in question being that which included the names one would have expected, their being part of this band's regular personnel. Often substitutes had to be made at the last minute, especially for what in this instance would have been a fairly prestigious gig - for a BBC broadcast, one understands. The trouble, of course, is that it has gone out with the wrong names, in my view, on the cover. Had the releasers listened they might have asked questions - the two respective solos, on tenor sax and trumpet, are certainly at serious odds from what one would expect from the putative protagonists, while on the other hand being absolutely characteristic of two other quite famous musicians. Implied by pointing out the errors might be the suggestion that they should have listened more carefully to their product, and I don't imagine they would take kindly to such an implication!

[Dave2002]

Implied by pointing out the errors might be the suggestion that they should have listened more carefully to their product, and I don't imagine they would take kindly to such an implication!

Whether they take your suggestions kindly or not is their problem, not yours. Just state the facts as you see them. Of course if you add in extra opinions, such as "only a bunch of incompetents would release this ..." they would probably take offence, but you're not going to do that, are you?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Thanks, EH and Cloughie. It is possible that those who did the liner notes were going on publicity for the gig in question being that which included the names one would have expected, their being part of this band's regular personnel. Often substitutes had to be made at the last minute, especially for what in this instance would have been a fairly prestigious gig - for a BBC broadcast, one understands. The trouble, of course, is that it has gone out with the wrong names, in my view, on the cover. Had the releasers listened they might have asked questions - the two respective solos, on tenor sax and trumpet, are certainly at serious odds from what one would expect from the putative protagonists, while on the other hand being absolutely characteristic of two other quite famous musicians. Implied by pointing out the errors might be the suggestion that they should have listened more carefully to their product, and I don't imagine they would take kindly to such an implication!

Having been on the receiving end of the public writing in with corrections (albeit in a very different field of work ) I don’t think they will be the slightest bit put out- providing you have some evidence . I think people in the recorded music world are quite thick-skinned to be honest - a written complaint about a misattributed solo isn’t going to create many sleepless nights compared to dealing with some of the problems dealing with agents tends to throw up for example. Problems like the star refusing to go on without upfront payment in cash for example…
There might even be an opportunity to correct future editions or , these days, the online support material. They may even be grateful because those inaccurate sleeve notes can then get picked up on future broadcasts leading to more corrections. I guess in jazz who played what solo at what live gig can sometimes be guesswork.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'll think about it - thanks guys!

[RichardB]

Implied by pointing out the errors might be the suggestion that they should have listened more carefully to their product, and I don't imagine they would take kindly to such an implication!

They might on the other hand resolve to be more careful in future.

Are either of the uncredited soloists still on this planet? If so you might just mention the matter to them and then retire to a safe distance.

[Serial_Apologist]

They might on the other hand resolve to be more careful in future.

Are either of the uncredited soloists still on this planet? If so you might just mention the matter to them and then retire to a safe distance.

One of them is - and in his case this could be touchy! Many years ago I visited him to do an interview for a journal, taking with me as a present a recording from 1972 just issued by the mag I was doing the interview for, which had him on it. He flew into an instant rage, saying he had never even been consulted over its release, and asking how I had come by it! I can think of another recording, from the 1960s, which I once saw going for £500 second hand, and which had him soloing on it, but without mention of his name on the sleeve. Luckily we hit it off and I was able to get my interview! The other guy is Kenny Wheeler, the great trumpet player, who died a few years ago.

[Ein Heldenleben]

One of them is - and in his case this could be touchy! Many years ago I visited him to do an interview for a journal, taking with me as a present a recording from 1972 just issued by the mag I was doing the interview for, which had him on it. He flew into an instant rage, saying he had never even been consulted over its release, and asking how I had come by it! I can think of another recording, from the 1960s, which I once saw going for £500 second hand, and which had him soloing on it, but without mention of his name on the sleeve. Luckily we hit it off and I was able to get my interview! The other guy is Kenny Wheeler, the great trumpet player, who died a few years ago.

Am I right in thinking Kenny Wheeler has a pretty unmistakable style ?

[Serial_Apologist]

Am I right in thinking Kenny Wheeler has a pretty unmistakable style ?

You are - he had!

[RichardB]

Anyway, S_A, we all think you're being a bit backward in coming forward. Go for it! Nobody's going to shoot you.

[Serial_Apologist]

Anyway, S_A, we all think you're being a bit backward in coming forward. Go for it! Nobody's going to shoot you.

Oh all right then if you insist! (Famous last words !!!)

[Serial_Apologist]

Would somebody be prepared to let me PM them the two links referred to to give a second opinion as to who is soloing? Confidentially?