Live London Jazz Festival webcast from the RFH - on here right now!

[Serial_Apologist]

http://efglondonjazzfestival.org.uk/events/article-10-women-v-culture

Leading women in Britjazz speaking, and others

Scroll down, click the screen link

[Serial_Apologist]

Well I don't know how many others people watched this, in parts or entirety, but I felt the discussions were among the best with regards to jazz that I have ever witnessed. Many of the issues were similar to those that were discussed back in the late 70s and early 80s as regards women's involvement in the music, indeed in popular music in general, initiated by people like Maggie Nicols back then - (rather a shame no one mentioned her on this) - and the openings to popular music encouraged in and by punk rock.

I think the debates of today, still having to cover the same grounds as before, are better thought through and multiply encompassing in terms of issues - the terminologies have been in place for some time now, even if some of my generation have yet to get used to using them: back in the mists of time we had to define our terms and get used to the vocabularies young intellectuals now adapt fluently as if talking about everyday domestic issues. There seems a lot more seriousness about, less irony and jokey defensive self-caricaturing, which showed up subtly in how Janine Neye and Dora Lam put themselves across in the final conversation; but after all, issues are far more central to a generation that faces a questionable future under capitalism, and they know it. It also seems the black community have a far more nuanced sense of identification both of issues and common purpose with non-binary and LGTB people than was arguably the case back in the 1960s and 70s when entire community exclusion indicated more race-centered cultural developments.

I got so much of out these debates, along with the intervening films, the personal statements and the moving rehearsal band session led by Cassie at the end. 7 pages of handwritten notes in fact! Two of the soloists in the session, the tenor player and the guitarist, showed promise and should be looked out for in future years.

Shame I didn't go - the audience looked sparse from what we could see. I would have liked to have raised social media in the discussion

[CGR]

Well I don't know how many others people watched this, in parts or entirety, but I felt the discussions were among the best with regards to jazz that I have ever witnessed. Many of the issues were similar to those that were discussed back in the late 70s and early 80s as regards women's involvement in the music, indeed in popular music in general, initiated by people like Maggie Nicols back then - (rather a shame no one mentioned her on this) - and the openings to popular music encouraged in and by punk rock.

I think the debates of today, still having to cover the same grounds as before, are better thought through and multiply encompassing in terms of issues - the terminologies have been in place for some time now, even if some of my generation have yet to get used to using them: back in the mists of time we had to define our terms and get used to the vocabularies young intellectuals now adapt fluently as if talking about everyday domestic issues. There seems a lot more seriousness about, less irony and jokey defensive self-caricaturing, which showed up subtly in how Janine Neye and Dora Lam put themselves across in the final conversation; but after all, issues are far more central to a generation that faces a questionable future under capitalism, and they know it. It also seems the black community have a far more nuanced sense of identification both of issues and common purpose with non-binary and LGTB people than was arguably the case back in the 1960s and 70s when entire community exclusion indicated more race-centered cultural developments.

I got so much of out these debates, along with the intervening films, the personal statements and the moving rehearsal band session led by Cassie at the end. 7 pages of handwritten notes in fact! Two of the soloists in the session, the tenor player and the guitarist, showed promise and should be looked out for in future years.

Shame I didn't go - the audience looked sparse from what we could see. I would have liked to have raised social media in the discussion

It was boring. I switched it off.

The programme before it on Keith Jarrett was brilliant.

[Ian Thumwood]

Well I don't know how many others people watched this, in parts or entirety, but I felt the discussions were among the best with regards to jazz that I have ever witnessed. Many of the issues were similar to those that were discussed back in the late 70s and early 80s as regards women's involvement in the music, indeed in popular music in general, initiated by people like Maggie Nicols back then - (rather a shame no one mentioned her on this) - and the openings to popular music encouraged in and by punk rock.

I think the debates of today, still having to cover the same grounds as before, are better thought through and multiply encompassing in terms of issues - the terminologies have been in place for some time now, even if some of my generation have yet to get used to using them: back in the mists of time we had to define our terms and get used to the vocabularies young intellectuals now adapt fluently as if talking about everyday domestic issues. There seems a lot more seriousness about, less irony and jokey defensive self-caricaturing, which showed up subtly in how Janine Neye and Dora Lam put themselves across in the final conversation; but after all, issues are far more central to a generation that faces a questionable future under capitalism, and they know it. It also seems the black community have a far more nuanced sense of identification both of issues and common purpose with non-binary and LGTB people than was arguably the case back in the 1960s and 70s when entire community exclusion indicated more race-centered cultural developments.

I got so much of out these debates, along with the intervening films, the personal statements and the moving rehearsal band session led by Cassie at the end. 7 pages of handwritten notes in fact! Two of the soloists in the session, the tenor player and the guitarist, showed promise and should be looked out for in future years.

Shame I didn't go - the audience looked sparse from what we could see. I would have liked to have raised social media in the discussion

I think that the whole issue of "Women in jazz" now seems very contrived and perhaps even devisive. We are now in a situation where I think most people listening to jazz do not make a distinction and anyone with even the slightest interest in the contemporary scene will quikcly come to the conclusion that is often the women playing jazz who are setting the agenda. No one really looks at musicians as diverse as Maria Schneider, Tomeka Reid, Mary Halvorson, Linda Oh, Dianne Reeves, Terri-Lynn Carrington, Kris Davis, Allison Miller, Satoka Fujii, Carla Bley, Regina Carter, Ingrid Jenson, Cassie Kinoshi, Nubya Garcia , etc and singles them out for special attention as they are women. This is even before you get in to the singers who totally dominate new album releases if you ever care to read the record reviews on sites like "All about jazz." I do not see that it is an argument that has much legs anymore and maybe a more salient argument would be to ask whether jazz is now being dominated by women ?

[Ian Thumwood]

I caught a snatch of the BBC Radio 3 concert on Friday before the England game started and have been surprised that no one has commented on that. I did not listen long enough to make a proper comment but it seems like it must have been programmed by people with a woke agenda and not really having much to do with jazz. I have up very quickly even if it was never going to compete with David Platt's boys.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Cecile Mclorin Salvant- "Prelude/There's a lull in my life". Cecile kicks in around 2.35. My "contribution" to women and jazz, I've no idea why this ballad is not better known, it's a classic. The versions I know are Nat Cole, Ella, Chet B and Hank Mobley...

http://youtu.be/47srdYCpe2w

I've been listening to a live version by Ms Salvant that she did on one of Jamie Cullen old shows, out of Betty Carter, but equally magnificent.

All I would say is that IF we are interested in women's rights and achievements, we don't hound them from university campuses like a baying crowd of infantile Maoists, for suggesting that sex is primarily, reality is concrete, and gender is in your head. Or your Twitter. That.

[Serial_Apologist]

I would still maintain that the debate in question remains worth having - even if it is, like yesterday's Guy Barker concert, largely a media-defined confection - in order to gauge how far things have progressed since the 1970s. Many of the points that were raised by the contributers bear out Ian's argument that issues of gender and sexuality have moved on for much of the jazz community and audience. While problems facing young women thinking of taking up jazz as a profession are much the same as they have always been regarding women's employment in general, little has changed or not changed there that can today be blamed on the culture of jazz per se.

[Serial_Apologist]

It was boring. I switched it off.

The programme before it on Keith Jarrett was brilliant.

The discussion was about what feeds into the makings and character of jazz today, ie about process - the Jarrett documentary, otoh, was about someone thought by quite a few to be a genius, who, like a lot of geniuses in the arts, is more interested in his own glorification than in helping the wider scene.