Stew - shaken, not stirred.

**Ian Thumwood** · 07-06-21, 06:45

Picking up on Elmo's comment about the more recent generation of jazz musicians, it was quite interesting listening to JRR. I missed the opening announcements and thought that the Allison Neale track was a Paul Desmond recording with Ed Bickert. I was much more impressed with this than the Fergus MacCreadie and Laura MacDonald records, the former probably being very much what Elmo had in mind. Not a fan of these kind of piano trios anyway but the coupling with Scottish folk music just makes you want to listen to jazz that is more authentic and after the football and cricket had finished on TV, I listened to some Bud Powell which served to demonstrate just how far many contemporary trios have more away from the tenets espoused by the likes of Powell.

Two tracks stood out for me. Although it was not really my taste, I was struck by the craftsmanship of the Ella track with the Inkspots and it made me think that this level of musicianship is almost totally absent from today's pop music. I find it quite staggering just how simple so much modern pop music is and the lowering in quality since 1980s is probably reflective that so much pop these days is produced by people who are not really musicians and do not have the tools to make the music interesting. As a piece of pop music, the Ella track was a master-class. I found that track really salutary. The best track was the Dave Holland trio. Got to agree with the positive comments on the guitar track about this record. I am going to have to get hold of a copy of this disc.

Incidentally, picking up and running with the idea of pop music, there was an article I read somewhere recently about the demographic for radio stations and how this is affecting the play lists. The article was largely about many local, independent stations being transformed into "Greatest Hits" radio and was largely centred on the fact that local identity is now being lost not only on the BBC but other networks as well. The result is a race to the bottom. It appears that the largest audience for radio is women in their late 20s and 30s and this is reflected in the playlists which is increasingly mainstream and conservative. Stations are increasingly pandering to this demographic. I found the piece an eye-opener because non-digital recordings are being excluded from playlists so that effectively radios tend to play more music from 1980s onwards. There also appears to be a rejection of much contemporary pop. This malaise is all too apparent if you deviate from BBC although the local BBC Radio Solent is turning in this direction - an increasing propensity to employ middle aged female presenters means it is difficult to differentiate with commercial stations. Radio Solent sued to have both jazz and big band programmes but this music will not be found on the station as even the evening programmes are going the same way . These days, I only listen for the football commentary but it is interesting because I think it is less and less likely that jazz can be found across the wavelengths in the UK as it is too far outside the remit of stations and totally off the radar of the demographic the stations are trying to cater for.

**Jazzrook** · 07-06-21, 10:44

Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

Picking up on Elmo's comment about the more recent generation of jazz musicians, it was quite interesting listening to JRR. I missed the opening announcements and thought that the Allison Neale track was a Paul Desmond recording with Ed Bickert. I was much more impressed with this than the Fergus MacCreadie and Laura MacDonald records, the former probably being very much what Elmo had in mind. Not a fan of these kind of piano trios anyway but the coupling with Scottish folk music just makes you want to listen to jazz that is more authentic and after the football and cricket had finished on TV, I listened to some Bud Powell which served to demonstrate just how far many contemporary trios have more away from the tenets espoused by the likes of Powell.

Two tracks stood out for me. Although it was not really my taste, I was struck by the craftsmanship of the Ella track with the Inkspots and it made me think that this level of musicianship is almost totally absent from today's pop music. I find it quite staggering just how simple so much modern pop music is and the lowering in quality since 1980s is probably reflective that so much pop these days is produced by people who are not really musicians and do not have the tools to make the music interesting. As a piece of pop music, the Ella track was a master-class. I found that track really salutary. The best track was the Dave Holland trio. Got to agree with the positive comments on the guitar track about this record. I am going to have to get hold of a copy of this disc.

Incidentally, picking up and running with the idea of pop music, there was an article I read somewhere recently about the demographic for radio stations and how this is affecting the play lists. The article was largely about many local, independent stations being transformed into "Greatest Hits" radio and was largely centred on the fact that local identity is now being lost not only on the BBC but other networks as well. The result is a race to the bottom. It appears that the largest audience for radio is women in their late 20s and 30s and this is reflected in the playlists which is increasingly mainstream and conservative. Stations are increasingly pandering to this demographic. I found the piece an eye-opener because non-digital recordings are being excluded from playlists so that effectively radios tend to play more music from 1980s onwards. There also appears to be a rejection of much contemporary pop. This malaise is all too apparent if you deviate from BBC although the local BBC Radio Solent is turning in this direction - an increasing propensity to employ middle aged female presenters means it is difficult to differentiate with commercial stations. Radio Solent sued to have both jazz and big band programmes but this music will not be found on the station as even the evening programmes are going the same way . These days, I only listen for the football commentary but it is interesting because I think it is less and less likely that jazz can be found across the wavelengths in the UK as it is too far outside the remit of stations and totally off the radar of the demographic the stations are trying to cater for.

Ian

Don't know whether it's just mine, but Amazon seem to have stopped accepting reviews of jazz albums.
Have posted around six reviews(including the Hasaan Ibn Ali) since May 25 but not one has yet appeared.
Not sure why this is happening.
Have you experienced these problems?

JR

**Serial_Apologist** · 07-06-21, 10:59

Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

Picking up on Elmo's comment about the more recent generation of jazz musicians, it was quite interesting listening to JRR. I missed the opening announcements and thought that the Allison Neale track was a Paul Desmond recording with Ed Bickert. I was much more impressed with this than the Fergus MacCreadie and Laura MacDonald records, the former probably being very much what Elmo had in mind. Not a fan of these kind of piano trios anyway but the coupling with Scottish folk music just makes you want to listen to jazz that is more authentic and after the football and cricket had finished on TV, I listened to some Bud Powell which served to demonstrate just how far many contemporary trios have more away from the tenets espoused by the likes of Powell.

Two tracks stood out for me. Although it was not really my taste, I was struck by the craftsmanship of the Ella track with the Inkspots and it made me think that this level of musicianship is almost totally absent from today's pop music. I find it quite staggering just how simple so much modern pop music is and the lowering in quality since 1980s is probably reflective that so much pop these days is produced by people who are not really musicians and do not have the tools to make the music interesting. As a piece of pop music, the Ella track was a master-class. I found that track really salutary. The best track was the Dave Holland trio. Got to agree with the positive comments on the guitar track about this record. I am going to have to get hold of a copy of this disc.

Incidentally, picking up and running with the idea of pop music, there was an article I read somewhere recently about the demographic for radio stations and how this is affecting the play lists. The article was largely about many local, independent stations being transformed into "Greatest Hits" radio and was largely centred on the fact that local identity is now being lost not only on the BBC but other networks as well. The result is a race to the bottom. It appears that the largest audience for radio is women in their late 20s and 30s and this is reflected in the playlists which is increasingly mainstream and conservative. Stations are increasingly pandering to this demographic. I found the piece an eye-opener because non-digital recordings are being excluded from playlists so that effectively radios tend to play more music from 1980s onwards. There also appears to be a rejection of much contemporary pop. This malaise is all too apparent if you deviate from BBC although the local BBC Radio Solent is turning in this direction - an increasing propensity to employ middle aged female presenters means it is difficult to differentiate with commercial stations. Radio Solent sued to have both jazz and big band programmes but this music will not be found on the station as even the evening programmes are going the same way . These days, I only listen for the football commentary but it is interesting because I think it is less and less likely that jazz can be found across the wavelengths in the UK as it is too far outside the remit of stations and totally off the radar of the demographic the stations are trying to cater for.

I have to say I strongly agree with this (apart from the football reference - footy seems to be becoming more and more a sick culture to have anything to do with). I often wonder how much people who complain vociferously about falling standards in relation to broadcasting in general, and Radio 3 in particular, give thought to why this phenomenon of general dumbing down is increasingly prevalent. My own view is that the Powers That Be see so-called "serious" arts and music as getting people to question the cultural values that dominate our age. Why, in short, should people be spoonfed the same old same old reductionist-inculcating product? Well the question surely answers itself. Challenging stuff challenges people to question old certainties - particularly in times when those old certainties are increasingly proving incapable of giving answers to more and more pressing issues, from inequalities that are seen to be widening the longer nothing changes, by way of wars caused by liars who are continually dragged into news and discussion programmes for their "solutions", to pandemics we are now being told are likely to be the norm for the forseeable future, and right down beliefs being promulgated that the way to overcome injustices and racisms past and present is to avoid topics upsetting to people, and thence to the crap that now constitutes much of mainstream TV (with honorable exceptions such as CH4 reports from countries devastated by war, famine and anarchy) and what the mentality of those contracted to do TV adverts says about manufacturers and their products.

**Ian Thumwood** · 07-06-21, 18:53

Jazzrook

I have checked and the two reviews I wrote back in May materialised on the website lbeit one was a book about the Roman army. They hae done this to me in the past but it eventually goes back to normal.

SA

I think that the issue with playlists centres purely around attracting an audience. Jazz is only the tip of the iceberg because a whole swathe of other oeuvres no longer gets catered for. If you like "specialist" music, you are generally going to have to rely on either BBC Radio 3 or Radio 3. If you want vintage jazz, I would suggest that there are few programmes catering for this other than JRR. It has effectively been wiped off the list. I am not sure how other regions are performing with regard to their commitment to jazz but down on the South Coast it simply does not exist. Other parts of the UK are probably better catered for.

The problem as I see it is that local BBC radio has to compete with local commercial stations. The latter are getting fewer and fewer since the process last year of them being re-branded as "Greatest Hits Radio." The commercial radio stations survive on advertising and therefore there is going to be a pressure put on presenters to only play familiar music as opposed to something niche. Consequently, the best way of achieving this is to play the kind of music which appeals to the greatest demographic who are 30-something women. This is also matched locally with BBC Radio Solent which follows the same kind of playlists as well as 30/40 year old female presenters who will appear to be sympathetic to their listeners. It is actually quite staggering when in the car that about 90% of the music played largely consists of 1980's - 2000's pop. The digital format will mean anything recorded prior to 1980s is going to get limited air play even it is popular with this audience. Effectively, it is a race to the bottom. Regional commercial radio is homogeneous and only "local" as far as the traffic reports are concerned. Local BBC radio seems to be following in it's wake. It is depressing but clearly the way forward if audience figures are not to reduce further. Basically, the principle audience for radio is not concerning when it comes to what it listens to.

Stew - shaken, not stirred.

Stew - shaken, not stirred.

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