Chick Corea

[Tenor Freak]

I've been listening to the records Chick Corea cut with Blue Mitchell for Bluenote, from 1964 to... when he was a central part of the Blue Mitchell/Junior Cook quintet. "Blue, my first major mentor", as he enthusiastically re called. Some excellent overlooked stuff on those records, from everyone...
http://youtu.be/81m5ruR9f60

Listening to those tracks from "Down With It!" you can hear the McCoy influence in Chick's playing alright. But I can also hear why (that word again) the underrated Junior Cook played on so many dates and stayed in Horace Silver's band for so long.

So "Down With It!" gets a from me.

[Jazzrook]

Obituary by John Fordham:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/14/chick-corea-obituary

JR

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Just remembered Chick was on this album, "Total Eclipse", Bobby Hutcherson/Harold Land, Bluenote 1968, and I think my favourite "Harold in new directions" album.
I would request something from it for JRR but I've had quite a few lately, but here's "Herzog". Chick's opening solo is out of Tyner but with his "own". He contributes immensely to the success of the record..

http://youtu.be/SyQxoGDwaVQ

Wrong track, that's "Matrix"! But here's "Herzog"...

http://youtu.be/c6P4ckoHqlY

[Constantbee]

....returning to forever....

Woh! How did I miss this? Must get out more Having worn out my vinyl copy of Secret Agent (1978), a superbly crafted and put together album, IMHO, and one of the first jazz fusion albums I ever bought, I shall be listening again on Youtube later on. I liked his duets with Hiromi a lot. He left a great legacy

[Ian Thumwood]

I have been playing my Chick Corea records this week and I keep returning to the trio with Miroslav Vitous and Roy Haynes. I love this trio and the "Live in Europe" album is still as exciting as when I first bought it from Henry's Record shop in St Mary's, Southampton. The shop was near the college I attended and I would often go out in the afternoon break and rifle through their collection of ECM records before making a choice as to what to buy. Around the same time I also bought "Septet" but the initial "Return to forever" album put me off Corea for a long time afterwards. The first album I bought was the duet "Voyages" with flautist Steve Kujala.

Listening again, "Now he sings" and the trio disc are essential, in my opinion. I was struck by the two albums with Kujala by just how removed Corea could sometimes be from jazz. There is quite a large chunk of this music which is fully composed, even on the duet. (Although "Voyage" does have some freely improvised music on it too.)The written element is fascinating because you can still tell that it comes from Chick Corea's pen yet , if you compare the chamber composition with where classical music was in the 1980s, you would place this as "Late Romantic" and it is only the fact that the music takes it's rhythm and momentum from jazz that is a giveaway that he is a 20th century composer. I did not appreciate that both "Voyage" and "Septet" were nominated for Grammys, the latter for composition. "Septet" is an interesting record and is , perhaps, "fusion" in another sense - this time between classical chamber music and jazz. I think that there is only improvisation of the closing "Isfahan." Listening to this, made me regret not buying his other project in this field, "The Lyric suite" which was also on ECM and had the added attraction of Gary Burton on the record.

I think that the JRR Chick tribute will likely demonstrate that his fans are split between the straight ahead jazz recordings and the fusion output. Listening to the link Bruce posted to the Barfe jazz programme, stuff like "Hymn to the seventh galaxy" seemed to underscore my perception of the fusion stuff which has not stood up at all well over the years. It is difficult to reconcile that this is the same man making the exceptional acoustic records. However, I think that the "classical" element of Corea maybe will get over-looked. I just sense that it projects the same over-ripe ideas expressed by the fusion groups but delivers it in a more "musical" fashion which is not subject to the dated keyboard sounds. There is a stronger connection between the way the chamber music and the fusion material is fashioned with the chamber music being far more satisfying in this resoect. No one seems to have considered these "crossover" records with his ECM output better known for the trio, the Children's Songs and the work with Gary Burton. Corea's work with chamber ensembles or the duet with Kujala don't seem to get much truck amongst fans of his music.

Wondered if anyone else had any opinions of this side of Corea's work ?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

One thing no-one here has mentioned is Corea's deep immersion in Scientology, possibly for understandable reasons of tack, but it certainly had an impact on those hr played with and their future relationship. Very good in depth interview with Dave Liebman floating around the net with his memories of that time. Corea asking sideman to award themselves "merit stars" as to how they played after each gig (to Chick's written criteria) and insisting on no casual sex etc. Sounds like fun.

[Serial_Apologist]

Listening again, "Now he sings" and the trio disc are essential, in my opinion. I was struck by the two albums with Kujala by just how removed Corea could sometimes be from jazz. There is quite a large chunk of this music which is fully composed, even on the duet. (Although "Voyage" does have some freely improvised music on it too.)The written element is fascinating because you can still tell that it comes from Chick Corea's pen yet , if you compare the chamber composition with where classical music was in the 1980s, you would place this as "Late Romantic" and it is only the fact that the music takes it's rhythm and momentum from jazz that is a giveaway that he is a 20th century composer.

An important observation - and one that has been very much reflected in one particular side of jazz which has emerged since the Millennium, particularly in this country, which projects the pastoral, and has been exemplified by officially sponsored works employing string orchestras (in particular) and setting the pianist/composer in a kind of latter-day piano concerto context: I'm thinking here of people such as Gwilym Simcock, and Tim Garland, who of course has worked a lot with Corea.

I think that the "classical" element of Corea maybe will get over-looked. I just sense that it projects the same over-ripe ideas expressed by the fusion groups but delivers it in a more "musical" fashion which is not subject to the dated keyboard sounds. There is a stronger connection between the way the chamber music and the fusion material is fashioned with the chamber music being far more satisfying in this respect. No one seems to have considered these "crossover" records with his ECM output better known for the trio, the Children's Songs and the work with Gary Burton. Corea's work with chamber ensembles or the duet with Kujala don't seem to get much truck amongst fans of his music.

Yes, except that he was working with ensembles which in their own way and aesthetic are even older than the fusion which used electronic instruments as substitutes for orchestras.

[Tenor Freak]

One thing no-one here has mentioned is Corea's deep immersion in Scientology, possibly for understandable reasons of tack, but it certainly had an impact on those hr played with and their future relationship. Very good in depth interview with Dave Liebman floating around the net with his memories of that time. Corea asking sideman to award themselves "merit stars" as to how they played after each gig (to Chick's written criteria) and insisting on no casual sex etc. Sounds like fun.

He wasn't just "deeply immersed" in it, he'd reached the highest rank of the "religion" not once, but twice. That Louis Barfe programme I linked to is the only one to mention Corea's $cientology - to the point of explaining that Corea had to re-take his OT VIII for $$$ because the "Church" had reset the syllabus. Way back when, Mike Zwerin did an article in The Wire about Joe Farrell, in which he quoted Farrell as saying that the "Scient0logy shit" was doing his head in and was a reason why he left Return To Forever. Apparently Corea lost sidemen such as Al De Meola precisely because of his "beliefs". On that matter I own a couple of old Stanley Clarke LPs where he dedicates them to L. Ron H*bbard.

[Ian Thumwood]

The Scientology aspect has been discussed in some obits although this is usually mentioned in conjunction with his ultimate move towards "Return to forever" and the Fusion projects that followed where Corea cited the philosophy as the driving force for the sudden change in direction in his music.

I would struggle to call Corea's chamber works "pastoral" and I think the idea that string ensembles are an older concept than electronic instruments glosses over the fact that acoustic ensembles will not date as rapidly as the former. There seems to be more recognition on this thread of Corea as a pianist than a composer. The chamber concepts are intriguing because of the mix of composed and improvised elements. Sometime the music s through-composed whereas he also allows room for soloists of improvise on others. With regard to his ambition as a composer, I feel that this is a component of his work here that is being over-looked and even from a perspective as a jazz composer where there are plenty of great composition which go well beyond the most familiar. To my mind, Corea was extremely versatile as a composer.

[cloughie]

The Scientology aspect has been discussed in some obits although this is usually mentioned in conjunction with his ultimate move towards "Return to forever" and the Fusion projects that followed where Corea cited the philosophy as the driving force for the sudden change in direction in his music.

I would struggle to call Corea's chamber works "pastoral" and I think the idea that string ensembles are an older concept than electronic instruments glosses over the fact that acoustic ensembles will not date as rapidly as the former. There seems to be more recognition on this thread of Corea as a pianist than a composer. The chamber concepts are intriguing because of the mix of composed and improvised elements. Sometime the music s through-composed whereas he also allows room for soloists of improvise on others. With regard to his ambition as a composer, I feel that this is a component of his work here that is being over-looked and even from a perspective as a jazz composer where there are plenty of great composition which go well beyond the most familiar. To my mind, Corea was extremely versatile as a composer.

Just listened to Chick Corea and Friedrich Gulda playing Mozart Double with Harnoncourt and the Concertgebouw followed by the coupling of Fantasies for Two Pianos - one written by each - interesting genre bending but then Gulda likes to dabble in jazz and Corea’s musical career included some months at the Juilliard.

[Tenor Freak]

I have also been listening to a fair bit of Corea's work too, of late. Apart from the trio with Miroslav Vitous and Roy Haynes, my favourites are the early RTF and some of the duets with Gary Burton. However after that Barfe programme I've also got into the LP "Friends" - the one with the Smurfs on the cover.

The reason for moving to the fusion work is probably due to $$$, as the acoustic trio or Circle weren't going to pay much. And of course, fusion was very popular at a time when acoustic music was seen as not commercial. RTF appeared on The Old Grey Whistle Test, for example...oh yes, here it is:

[Ian Thumwood]

He wasn't just "deeply immersed" in it, he'd reached the highest rank of the "religion" not once, but twice. That Louis Barfe programme I linked to is the only one to mention Corea's $cientology - to the point of explaining that Corea had to re-take his OT VIII for $$$ because the "Church" had reset the syllabus. Way back when, Mike Zwerin did an article in The Wire about Joe Farrell, in which he quoted Farrell as saying that the "Scient0logy shit" was doing his head in and was a reason why he left Return To Forever. Apparently Corea lost sidemen such as Al De Meola precisely because of his "beliefs". On that matter I own a couple of old Stanley Clarke LPs where he dedicates them to L. Ron H*bbard.

Bruce

Thanks for posting the link to Barfe's programme which I listening to for a while before the presentation style started to grate.

I concur that Barfe has been the only person to really explore the scientology question. I think it is an interesting undercurrent within his music but thankfully had little impact on his more traditional jazz work. The biggest clues are in the fusion output which, I regret, I find largely unlistenable.

I hope that I am not being too controversial here but I tend to take "religious" influences in music with a pinch of salt although I would add that Christian gospel music is something that I quite like even if I do not consider myself to be religious. As someone who reads a lot of history and particularly about Romans, it is fascinating to put the religion in a historical context, especially if you want to use the New Testament as a historical document where it is hopelessly unreliable when you compare and contrast with other contemporary historical records. (The earliest parts where written about 65AD, I think. ) Were Christianity not so mainstream, I think a lot of people would question the premise a bit more, especially with regard to someone like Jesus who is absent from any reliable , historical record. With the advance of science and more robust historical research based on better archaeological research, Christianity (or at least the whole "idea"of Jesus) is increasingly problematic to modern minds. In the light of this, would you suggest that does the faith of Duke Ellington, Thomas Dorsey or Blind Willie Johnson was any less importance because the role their faith played in their music ? I am not vindicating Scientology and have to admit I know very little about it. I would not be inclined to slight Corea's music because of his faith which should stand on it's musical merits.

[Joseph K]

[Ian Thumwood]

The "Trilogy 2 " album is terrific. A series of live performances with Christian McBride and Brian Blade. I have really been enjoying listening to this record. The level of playing is exceptional and nice to hear the trio rip in to Kenny Dorham's "Lotus Blossom."