Ronnie’s - BBC4

[Belgrove]

Tomorrow BBC4 at 9pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000pjcm

[Ian Thumwood]

Shame that TV execs seem to think that this is the only Jazz club in the world. Is there anything left to be said about this place which has not been done to death before?

[Tenor Freak]

Why not hear from the man himself? Here is Elaine Grange interviewing Ronnie and Pete King in 1978.

Was Ronnie a big user of the fine Colombian? Because he keeps sniffing during this interview.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Shame that TV execs seem to think that this is the only Jazz club in the world. Is there anything left to be said about this place which has not been done to death before?

Yes you could start with the fact that it’s gone from being a relatively cheap night out under the Scott / King regime to over priced and with split sets each of which Has to be paid for a tiny bit of a Ripoff ( in my view - been going there since the 70’s )

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Why not hear from the man himself? Here is Elaine Grange interviewing Ronnie and Pete King in 1978.

Was Ronnie a big user of the fine Colombian? Because he keeps sniffing during this interview.

"A longtime heavy smoker Ronnie suffered from considerable ill-health during his last two years. He suffered a thrombosis and had two operations on his legs before he suffered teeth problems. For a saxophone player teeth troubles can be a disaster. Ronnie was advised to have teeth implants, a painful and time consuming course of treatment, which if successful can be very effective.
Ronnie expected to be out of musical action for about a year but there were unforseen complications which extended the time he was unable to blow and practice, and this meant that his aim of playing publicly again on Christmas Eve seemed to be an unlikely hope." Apparently there wasn't enough bone mass to support the implants and they worked lose. I saw him first in Gerard street c1962 opposite Tubby Hayes and thought him at least the equal.

[CGR]

Yes you could start with the fact that it’s gone from being a relatively cheap night out under the Scott / King regime to over priced and with split sets each of which Has to be paid for a tiny bit of a Ripoff ( in my view - been going there since the 70’s )

Yep. Agreed. And of course, you can get seated behind that column on the left-hand side of the room, as I was last time I went. Not a good experience.

My preference has always been to go down to Chelsea and have an evening at the 606.

[Tenor Freak]

"A longtime heavy smoker Ronnie suffered from considerable ill-health during his last two years. He suffered a thrombosis and had two operations on his legs before he suffered teeth problems. For a saxophone player teeth troubles can be a disaster. Ronnie was advised to have teeth implants, a painful and time consuming course of treatment, which if successful can be very effective.
Ronnie expected to be out of musical action for about a year but there were unforseen complications which extended the time he was unable to blow and practice, and this meant that his aim of playing publicly again on Christmas Eve seemed to be an unlikely hope." Apparently there wasn't enough bone mass to support the implants and they worked lose. I saw him first in Gerard street c1962 opposite Tubby Hayes and thought him at least the equal.

I guess Soho wasn't the healthiest environment to be in. Dental issues can mess up your embouchure - Trane had similar problems towards the end as well.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yep. Agreed. And of course, you can get seated behind that column on the left-hand side of the room, as I was last time I went. Not a good experience.

My preference has always been to go down to Chelsea and have an evening at the 606.

I remember in the old days sitting on the front tables from 9 till 1 am with their amazing membership deal (£25 per annum) the tickets were really cheap - within student reach . Mind you the food wasn’t much cop but London’s finest stand-up comic was thrown in for free...

[Ian Thumwood]

I watched the documentary up until the last 15 minutes. I was really surprised that this offered very little new other than the revelation regarding Scott's depression although it was an interesting watch otherwise.

The main problem with me with the documentary was that you could have watched the programme and come away with the impression that nothing much happened in the club after 1970. It is funny seeing some of the clips from T shows of the 70s and 80s which similarly cemented the club's position in the history of the programme and also realising that nearly everyone of the voices discussing the music had been dead for about twenty years with the exception of John Fordham and Michael Parkinson. The British musicians who were a mainstay of the club never really got much of a mention with the likes of Stan Tracey and Tubby Hayes appearing in photographs but never name-checked. Unless it was mentioned at the end, there seemed little reference to the club developing the careers of musicians from the 1980s onwards with the documentary makers more interested in the relationship between Scott and King. I think than many musicians emerging in the 1980s would have been very thankful to Scott's largesse.

It is quite interesting to look back at these programmes as reflect that although the club was instrumental in bringing over the first truly great American Modern jazz musicians, the era that is celebrated seems pretty conservative in comparison with a lot of what was happening in jazz at the time. I think this is symptomatic of the fact that musicians such as Buddy Rich and Sarah Vaughan would have been known outside of jazz circles. The two other things that struck me was the amount of smoking going on. Scott rarely seemed to be filmed without a cigarette on the go. The other was Scott's impossibly dreadful stand-up comedian routine. More than anything else, the programme seemed like a nostalgia trip with cine film of everyday life in Soho seemingly having more potency at producing a "vibe" than clips of the musicians playing. The music itself seemed like an adjunct.

I cannot recall the last time that I saw a programme for the groups playing at the club and therefore am unable to comment upon what it's policy is these days.

[Keraulophone]

'London’s finest stand-up comic was thrown in for free.'
'Scott's impossibly dreadful stand-up comedian routine.'

...why I love the FoR3 forum!

Incidentally, I don't know much about jazz, but wouldn't Humph (of I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue fame) have been an even better stand-up, or was he just cajoled into reading others' jokes to a radio audience?

[Stunsworth]

I enjoyed the programme. I’ve never been so can’t comment on the experience.

Also, I may have mentioned it earlier, but Ronnie Scott’s are currently streaming a series of live concerts on YouTube. That’s live as in really live not recorded and then broadcast. The concerts are normally available for a couple of days after being first shown.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Don’t whether this gem was on the doc

“ we even have a Japanese chef ..only problem is every 7th of December he invades Pearl Bailey . “

Don’t know whether the doc mentioned Upstairs ..just about every jazz / blues musician In London must have had their first outing there. Didn’t they also run sessions where you could get in for free if bought an instrument? If you could play it even better ...If you knew a few progressions better still..
Seriously the contribution of Ronnie’s to British jazz is immense at every level from those starting out to the established artist . It was the first place where British giants like Stan and Tubby could play with the American greats ..and we could hear them at very reasonable prices .

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Don’t whether this gem was on the doc

“ we even have a Japanese chef ..only problem is every 7th of December he invades Pearl Bailey . “

Don’t know whether the doc mentioned Upstairs ..just about every jazz / blues musician In London must have had their first outing there. Didn’t they also run sessions where you could get in for free if bought an instrument? If you could play it even better ...If you knew a few progressions better still..
Seriously the contribution of Ronnie’s to British jazz is immense at every level from those starting out to the established artist . It was the first place where British giants like Stan and Tubby could play with the American greats ..and we could hear them at very reasonable prices .

The point of Ronnie's jokes was that everyone had heard them a hundred times before. That was the thrust, the in. He however could be pretty acidic when he wanted to be. And the achievement of holding the club together in the early days, and the precarious times after should never be underestimated. When they brought (hip) names into Gerrard street (my main period), they could barely cover costs given the capacity. Once they were into the larger Frith street, then the booking policy had to be widened. We can all make trite facile comments from a very safe distance. It's not a good look.

I met him when I was about 15 or 16, c 1962. I went down that staircase to an empty club on a Saturday afternoon, Ronnie lounging, Tubby Hayes rehearsing. With the arrogance of youth I walked straight up and said, "What time does the music start"? Sardonic response from Mr Scott, and then he said, "Come back around 8 and we'll probably find you somewhere". Which he very kindly did. Fond memories.

And don't forget the Old Place scene, Westbrook et al, which found its home there. By Ronnie's largesse. Some brilliant nights.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The point of Ronnie's jokes was that everyone had heard them a hundred times before. That was the thrust, the in. He however could be pretty acidic when he wanted to be. And the achievement of holding the club together in the early days, and the precarious times after should never be underestimated. When they brought (hip) names into Gerrard street (my main period), they could barely cover costs given the capacity. Once they were into the larger Frith street, then the booking policy had to be widened. We can all make trite facile comments from a very safe distance. It's not a good look.

I met him when I was about 15 or 16, c 1962. I went down that staircase to an empty club on a Saturday afternoon, Ronnie lounging, Tubby Hayes rehearsing. With the arrogance of youth I walked straight up and said, "What time does the music start"? Sardonic response from Mr Scott, and then he said, "Come back around 8 and we'll probably find you somewhere". Which he very kindly did. Fond memories.

And don't forget the Old Place scene, Westbrook et al, which found its home there. By Ronnie's largesse. Some brilliant nights.

Never went to the old place sadly. Amazing to think Tubby Hayes needed to rehearse at all! I once went when one of my party thought it would be witty to shout out during Ronnie’s Scunthorpe routine “ I am the Mayor of Scunthorpe “ .Oh Boy....

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Just noticed this piece on YouTube from two days ago....tapes of Bill Evans with Eddie Gomez and Jack D'J at Ronnie Scotts 1968 have been found in the latters basement tape collection and are being released on vinyl and CD by Resonance on November 27 & December 4.(different formats). 20 tracks plus interviews. Yew lucky people...

http://youtu.be/sjCN8nMLEyY