Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX
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Just another example of history distortion in the interests of making money I'm afraid. Where's the sick bag?
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The number of people who thought Brubeck had cut the original. And in fact (any) money went back to the originators.
I don't take it that seriously. In the scheme of bigger war crimes.Comment
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The comments are quite amusing as they demonstrate just how more important nostalgia is when people assess the quality of music. This is only the thin edge of the wedge with technology. I see a hologram of Elvis is due to make a debut in London this month. There was an American TV series called " Wild Palms" in the early 1990s which predicted this kind of evolution in technology.Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View PostComment
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I would call it the dead art of virtual necrophilia.Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View PostComment
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Son House(1902-88) ~ ‘Death Letter Blues’ in 1967:
JRLast edited by Jazzrook; 06-01-24, 08:24.Comment
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Phineas Newborn(1931-89?) playing Billy Strayhorn’s ‘Lush Life’ from his 1961 album ‘A World Of Piano!’:
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Big Joe Williams ~ Baby Please Don’t Go
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Outstanding.Originally posted by Jazzrook View PostBig Joe Williams ~ Baby Please Don’t Go
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A video about 5 rare albums by drummer Dave Bailey who died on December 28 last year, aged 97:
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He intros by way of the slow movement from Ravel's Piano Sonatina (1905) The British composer John Ireland told a story about hearing Ravel play it worse than any other version he had heard. This was in a roomful of celebrities in America including Rachmaninov, Gershwin and possibly Cole Porter. Ireland put the poor playing down to too much food and drink - although Ravel was (surprisingly, unlike Debussy) not known to be anything of a virtuoso, even though he had composed music as difficult at Liszt's to play.Originally posted by Jazzrook View PostPhineas Newborn(1931-89?) playing Billy Strayhorn’s ‘Lush Life’ from his 1961 album ‘A World Of Piano!’:
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Intrigued by both the clip of Newborn and SA's comments.in respect of Maurice Ravel. I discovered Ravel through listening to Gil Evans as the French / Swiss composer was deemed to have had a big influence on his music. At one point I did start to learn some of the Tombeau De Couperin and the Pavane which are amongst his most celebrated compositions. For a long while I was fixated by anything French and appreciating Ravel's music coming from a jazz perspective is only a little less logical than appreciating JS Bach. I would have to admit to not having listened to Ravel for a long while or even dug the music out of my cupboard to see if I could still play this. I need to explore his music again.Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
I tend to pick up written music to play either as a matter of curiousity to understand what is going on in the music because I like the "sound" or alternatively improve my sight reading which is dreadful. If I am lucky, I get an hour a week to play and I have increasingly being looking at Classical music to exercise my fingers. I am really taken aback by the comment that Ravel's music is as difficult to play as Lizst. About 30 years ago I attempted some Lizst and gave up ever being able to even sight read it. It is physically impossible and the composition was not written for normal humans. (I think it was the "Gnome King" as opposed to the laughing variety. ) The Ravel pieces I played were not so bad and I did not feel were as difficult as some Debussy which goes into the "impossible" category for me. What I think about Ravel's writing for piano is that the harmonies are like walking on egg-shells. They are not so sumptuous as Debussy and there is an element of Faure in his writing which i think often gets over-looked. When you read the music, I think that Ravel's voicings are very subtle and it is very easy to play the wrong note which totally destroys the music. I have not sight-read any other Ravel works to test if I concur with SA's assessment but , from my experience, I did not find the music impossible like I do with Debussy. (I can just about get through the Arabesques.) Looking at the manuscript does lead you into some interesting places and you discover a hinterland of where Classical music meets (then) popular music with the likes of Albeniz which struck me as being exceedingly corny. ("Espana." ) Then there are other composer's whose music is not physically dificult but where understanding the notation is an issue. Not sure what some of the comments mean in some Jancek and I find that some of the notation in Villa Lobos is beyond me too.
The Henle Verlag editions are really addictive and helpfully come with a rating. I bought "Vers la flamme" to understand the harmony and this IS difficult although it is the part where you are playing with the three hands that makes this impossible. Just nice to see the chords spelt out and understand what is going on as opposed to wasting my time learning something that will always going to remain beyond me, The sight-reading levels of music is intriguing because, having played in groups with enthusiastic amateurs , I do wonder how much is down to improvising so you can anticipate what notes follow. For me, the easiest composer to sight read is Clementi and I like going through Haydn too. Haydn seems "fun" to me and I can understand why Steve Lacy was a fan of his work. I think Haydn would have loved jazz. I like to hear the sounds these composers make but I also feeds in to the idea of what is "difficult" and also what is "impossible."
The other point I wanted to pick up on was the brilliant story about Ravel playing his Sonatine. It is amazing just how many famous musicians gravitated towards Paris in the ealry 20th century. I did not know Rachmaninov was there too as he is a composer I have a poor perception of which probably stems from my piano teacher's own negative opinion. (He told me a story about Rachmaninov supposedly playing Debussy to demonstrate that he was a poor composer - something my teacher considered to be ridiculous.) I know nothing of Rachmaninov other than he was Russian and Bill Evan was a fan. As well as the obvious names such a Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky and Les Six, there were others such as Martinu, Gershwin, Enescu and Prokoviev in that mix too. I have only recently stumbled upon Prokiviev who Bluesnik had commented on within the last 12 months as being quite serious music. To my ears, some of the Prokiviev does sound French but also very jazz-like when you hear the final movement of the 7th Piano sonata. The Piano Concerto's are really good too and the first one is ear-worm material. When I first heard Classical music I immediately put Debussy and Ravel on a pedestal albeit a little bit behind Messaien and Bartok who were effectively my point of entry outside of jazz. Nowadays I am not so sure. The two towering pillars to me seem to be Bach and Bartok - the latter just seems to get better the more you discover his music and give it time. Debussy is still a seminal point in composition to my ears but I am less favourable towards Ravel having discovered the like of Syzmanowski and rediscovered Scriabin. (Scriabin, in my opinion, is the apogee of piano writing. ) I had never heard of Scriabin until i heard Chich Corea perform one ofhis Preludes on an ECM disc,
There was so much happening in Classical music in the first half of the 20th century that I feel that even lesser known composers like Jancek, Enescu and even Villa Lobos are far more interesting than nearly everything written in the 19th century. You can stumble of composers like Baciesizc as I did before Christmas and end up being perplexed as to why she was so little appreciated. I have to say that I feel both Enescu and Syzmanowski would compete for a notional title of "Most under-rated Composer. " Wierd to think that an Enescu piano sonata is lost as it was never written down as Enescu effectively performed it by ear. The piano works by Enescu deserve to be better known but chamber works like the Octet represent a high point in Chamber music, Was Syzmanowki as good a composer for piano as Debussy ? I could be persuaded and I certainly find it odd that the Pole is never cited as an influence on jazz musicians. Wondered in SA had tried his Opus 1 work which Syzmanowski wrote between the age of 14-18 ? This music is just about do-able in some instances.
However, I have to say that I really like this composer and this is one of his sonata's I have played. I have heard Chick Corea play Scarlatti too. Nice to know that he was a fan too. Scarlatti is addictive. To my ears, he sounds more harmonically interesting than the other composers before Chopin.
It is funny to think about those composers jazz musicians feel to be "hip" and those who seem to be considered to be a bit square. Most of 20th century stuff seems to fall into the realms of "hip" and perhaps Chopin and Bach being the best examples of earlier composers. I think the harmonies in alot of Classical writing is probably not sexy enough for jazz musicians ! It is a bit predictable that Chopin / Debussy / Ravel / Bach appear as the obvious influences on jazz piano. It is fascinating t hear contemporary players moving beyong this towards the likes of Messaien. (I am guessing his work goes into the "impossible" category.)
I am increasingly open to listen to Classical music and find alot of music to be fascinating. There is too much to listen to and it is difficult to find time to explore everything I want to although I am fortunate of doing a bit of mileage which lets me hear more than most, I suppose.Comment
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Rare footage of "late" Graham Bond [sic] in this footage of Jack Bruce & Friends from 1971. They are clearly aware of Tony Williams's Lifetime (obvs. since Jack had been involved) but this lacks the subtleties and in the end amounts to not much more than freak-out. Of those playing just two are still with us.
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Archie Shepp with Wayne Dockery & Ronnie Burrage playing 'Hope 2' dedicated to Elmo Hope at Jazzwoche Burghausen, 2001:
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Readers of The Wire back in the 1980s might be curious to have read about the documentary film that has just been made about the legendary Leeds saxophonist Xero Slingsy. His is a name I have not heard for ages but he was something of a cult figure in the 1980s jazz revival. He was one of those musicians like Jan Kopinski who gravitated towards the "Punk Jazz" that tooks its cues from Ornette Coleman's Prime Time. The music also reminds me a bit of the late Thomas Chapin.
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