The place for jazz videos

[elmo]

My Brother recorded and we watched Miles Davis " A different kind of blue" a documentary based around Miles performance at the 1970 IOW festival. Very good doc which showed the Bartz, Corea, Jarrett, Holland, DeJohnette bands complete performance - full of fire and revolutionary zeal, this stuff is years ahead of 90% of the stuff churned out today and 100% of the crap on JtoZ

elmo

[Joseph K]

My Brother recorded and we watched Miles Davis " A different kind of blue" a documentary based around Miles performance at the 1970 IOW festival. Very good doc which showed the Bartz, Corea, Jarrett, Holland, DeJohnette bands complete performance - full of fire and revolutionary zeal, this stuff is years ahead of 90% of the stuff churned out today and 100% of the crap on JtoZ

elmo

Yes, Miles at that time and that gig in particular is awesome.

[Ian Thumwood]

My Brother recorded and we watched Miles Davis " A different kind of blue" a documentary based around Miles performance at the 1970 IOW festival. Very good doc which showed the Bartz, Corea, Jarrett, Holland, DeJohnette bands complete performance - full of fire and revolutionary zeal, this stuff is years ahead of 90% of the stuff churned out today and 100% of the crap on JtoZ

elmo

I feel tht jazz is now in a similar kind of malaise that it experienced in the 1970s. At one point I did feel that jazz was starting to kick back and that there were still some interesting artists around. There are players like James Brandon Lewis, Kirk Knuffke, Orrin Evans and J D Allen who seem to be right on the money and producing the kind of jazz that really represents the music of our time. However, it is otherwise difficult to find musicians under the age of 40 whose music has a degree of bite. I grew up listening to jazz in the late 1970s as I was encourage by my Dad to listen to it. Jazz did not make a hige impression on me until I was about 13 but by the time I had left school in 1983, jazz was all I really listened to. Initially, there was not much jazz on TV and most of the musicians playing it seemed to be over 50. I somehow managaed to avoid most Fusion which was going out of fashion when I started listening to the music in earnest.

You do fear for the future of jazz as I think that the younger audience for the music is diminishing as it is for all types of music. Someone posted an article on another website a few days back which analysed pop music snce the 1950s and looked as the issue of key signatures and modulations. Most people "creating" music in 2023 will be using software and may not necessarily have any musical training. This week's survey of "Best of 2022" albums on BBC was fascinating and it under-pinned the aforementioned article which suggested production values have far more importance that the musical components themselves. Younger audiences are looking for polished production and not musical sophistication. As I said previously, programmes like J-Z merely reflect what jazz is out there and the broader malaise which means anything too challenging is going to be driven underground and maybe become insignificant. Even on this board, there is an element of that. Most people posting here prefer jazz recorded prior to 1970. In addition, the two areas that I feel are the main ones where jazz IS interesting in 2023 rarely get much traction in here. I am probably the only person posting in here who likes big band / orchestral jazz and I feel that composition is the one area where the music is exciting. As far as i am aware, no one else is really checking out the likes Maria Schneider, Guillermo Klein, John Hollenbeck, etc. Whenever I post stuff by these kinds of artists. there is no other interest. Similarly, a lot of the "avant garde" stuff gets little real interest in here with maybe only Jazzrook being interested. The likes of William Parker, Henry Threadgill, Steve coleman, Steve Lehman, etc, etc get little airplay and also receive little enthusiasm on this board. I find that composition and more outside elements of jazz are pretty interesting at the moment yet a lot of the people complaining in here are not really interested in this. There is plenty of jazz out there with "fire and revolutionary zeal" yet it is not getting airplay and also not piquing the interes of fans who appreciated Coltrane, Coleman and Miles at their most outside. The "big" discovery in jazz for me this year was Tony Malaby who has been around for at least twenty years. Although he was a name I have read about, I cannot ever recall hearing his music on the radio. For my money, he is a terrific player - rather like a more outside version of Joe Lovano. It is hardly surprising that the likes of Elmo is complaining if he is not hearing the music played by the likes of this musician. The trio record made under Samo Salomen's name is terrific as is so much of the music issued by Clean Feed. None of this music gets much air time anywhere and I don;t think there are many on here who have checked him out either. The edgy jazz is out there but it is not available on a plate and won't ever likely to be featured as no one is bothered to seek it out.

Growing up, there were still plenty of big band leaders from the 30s/40s still plying their trade and the 1970s seemed to be to be the decade when the likes of Oscar Peterson, Johnny Dankworth and Dave Brubeck were right in the mainstream and also had popular appeal. Miles was still in retirement whenI was getting into jazz. The next decade seemed so exciting because it felt like someone had undone the "pause" button on jazz and it became relevant again. I think jazz needs that kind of injection again but it also needs to connect with a younger audience if it is to be relevant. Back in the 2000s and on the old Jass Bored, there was a thread about where would jazz be in ten year's time and what would the innovations in the music be like. Not sure if this thread can be resurrected. I can recall Alyn making a forecast that microtonal jazz would become more significant. I don't think anyone would have expected the music to become more conservative and perhaps being more "pop-orientated." I think the demise of record labels could have been predicted but maybe the impact of artists either issuing their own material or putting it out via smaller, independent labels was not understood then even if it was happening wth Classical music. In my opinion, the music can still be innovative and challenging yet the problem is that the younger generations are no longer looking for the qualities old forms of jazz had in their music. Difficult to criticise J-Z if the music is not out there in the first place and if the younger generation are either not interested in jazz, accessing music on other formats or have a shorter attention span. J-Z is reflecting what jazz has become whereas I think JRR probably panders more to older and more traditional jazz listeners. Contemporary avant garde stuff never seems to be requested which probably reflects the fact that it has a tiny audience. (I does stike me that if there is a market for contemporary jazz, it is either when it encounters EDM / technology or goes the other direction and gets into bed with folk music - the pleasant, opening track on JRR this week strikes me as being really typical of this stuff. I have been impressed by the pianist McCreadie although it is still in the mainstream, I suppose. )

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Technology good and bad, the relative ease of self release by those "new stars" virtually straight from music school etc. A prelude to teaching. Interesting interview with the now veteran Bob Rockwell on scratching even a basic living playing jazz (YouTube), "You want to know what's today's equivalent to a paid sideman gig? A teaching gig!" And his bread & butter audience (Denmark) predominantly wants a kind of Dexterish hard bop, whereas he says he'd prefer to play later Coltrane and music based on that era.

"It is what it is", as they say. Societal changes. Although I do find French radio (France Musique) vastly more adventurous and comprehensive, whereas R3, even in its core classical output, seems like a museum where even the 20th century is suspect.

Happy New Year!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Bob Rockwell interview on working as a jazz musician, the reality. Before we get to the romanticism of what might be (which now absolutely never will be) the reality.

http://youtu.be/ki7osGIo9U0

[Ian Thumwood]

The issue for me is that the BBC seems increasingly to be geared to looking for an on line solution. This applies to radio as much as television. I find the BBC website doesn't do itself any favours with it's older audience and the set up is increasingly geared to younger listeners in the fear that there will not be an audience for the BBC in future. It is fascinating to looks at the "Arts and entertainment" section on the BBC news page which is shallow in the extremee. Jazz only gets a mention a few times a year but where there is musical anaylsis, it is always geared around "new" pop music. There is no real critical appraisal and any reviews are unlikely to mean anythig to anyone under the age of 35. For in depth assessments , read comments about an artist's sexuality or whatever pronoun they wish to be known by.

It feel that Elmo's withering assessment o J-Z is probably a little unfair but effectively is symptomatic that the values he (and practically everyone else on this board holds dear ) are irrelevent as far as the people compiling either radio or website content. Small wonder that there is often a disconnect between what gets requested on JRR and what gets played on other jazz programmes. If you like, JRR is what the audience wants to hear whereas programmes like J-Z are increasingly what younger producers believe we will be satisfied hearing. On a broader spectrum, the situation is far worse if you consider what jazz festivals are programming or what youe local jazz venue might put out. The last gig I went to in November by David Binney has 30 people in the audience, a third of which were involved with the gig. You would have to question the relevance of the live concert given the prevalence of downloads which are far easier to deal with.

I feel that very few jazz artists have effectively achieved much traction with audiences in the last twenty years in the way that say was happening in the 80s and 90s. People no longer have the attention span to deal with more complex types of music including jazz and there is a massive difference in how music is consumed between the generations. Jazz is in danger of being irrelevent to most audiences and the lack of "big names" only serves to diminish it's significance. Chances are that the records that are currently being released that are being talked about are historic "lost" recordings. Jazz releases like those by Wynton in the 80s or even something like Miles' "Tutu" no longer get much coverage. I totally agree with the "reality" issues of contemporary jazz musicians mooted in the interview but if jazz is solely about the educative process, surely it is no longer relevant.

Personally, last year was the first year for me where I bought more classical music than jazz. Of those new, 2022 jazz recordings, I think about 3 were contemporary - broadly 50% of the number of ablums i bought of music by both Scarlatti and Scriabin. In addition, I did buy records by a few artists that were a few years old by the likes of Orrin Evans. I think that it is telling that the youngest member of the "bored" is also more likely to listen to Coltrane, Miles or Fusion which effectively covers a mutlitude of sins, none of which is newer than 35 years old.

[Joseph K]

I think that it is telling that the youngest member of the "bored" is also more likely to listen to Coltrane, Miles or Fusion which effectively covers a mutlitude of sins, none of which is newer than 35 years old.

Perhaps, but I did buy a few recent releases last year which are not Trane, Miles or fusion - including:

https://antlaw.bandcamp.com/album/same-moon-in-the-same-world

https://outsideinmusic.bandcamp.com/album/riverside

https://christianmillerguitar.bandcamp.com/album/anansi-blues

[Ian Thumwood]

This is an example of how BBC News is reporting "new" music....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63917110

This is what passes as musical analysis.

[Serial_Apologist]

This is an example of how BBC News is reporting "new" music....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63917110

This is what passes as musical analysis.

Well clearly it doesn't. Nia is actually not a bad example of someone who has made something of herself, broken background and experiences notwithstanding. Maybe I am exposing my inner grand père manqué in advocating a supportive stance here: I can't for the life of me imagine what she means in referring to having fruit on her rider ; but the three clips on the link are way above what passes for pop in my admittedly limited experience. Sampled breakbeats, translated back into live interactive drumming in the perennial to-and-fro between street and studio lab, have been lingua franca among most of the post 1990 generations of jazz drummers - a welcome step forward from the backbeat-dominated Fusion clichés more creative exemplars of the genre were forced into dissociating themselves from back in the day. The resulting patternings, like all rhythmic innovations that were to be a if not the vital ingredient in the music's history, augmented in enrichment and advancement terms. Use of post-echo repetition comes out of the Dub tradition. Musically, I would argue, what she's doing is not a million miles from what Annette Peacock has for the past 30 years with people like Coldcut, and not without interest.

[gradus]

A New Year tonic from Ben Holder.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jey0RRvVcnk

[Serial_Apologist]

The issue for me is that the BBC seems increasingly to be geared to looking for an on line solution. This applies to radio as much as television. I find the BBC website doesn't do itself any favours with it's older audience and the set up is increasingly geared to younger listeners in the fear that there will not be an audience for the BBC in future. It is fascinating to looks at the "Arts and entertainment" section on the BBC news page which is shallow in the extremee. Jazz only gets a mention a few times a year but where there is musical anaylsis, it is always geared around "new" pop music. There is no real critical appraisal and any reviews are unlikely to mean anythig to anyone under the age of 35. For in depth assessments , read comments about an artist's sexuality or whatever pronoun they wish to be known by.

It feel that Elmo's withering assessment o J-Z is probably a little unfair but effectively is symptomatic that the values he (and practically everyone else on this board holds dear ) are irrelevent as far as the people compiling either radio or website content. Small wonder that there is often a disconnect between what gets requested on JRR and what gets played on other jazz programmes. If you like, JRR is what the audience wants to hear whereas programmes like J-Z are increasingly what younger producers believe we will be satisfied hearing. On a broader spectrum, the situation is far worse if you consider what jazz festivals are programming or what youe local jazz venue might put out. The last gig I went to in November by David Binney has 30 people in the audience, a third of which were involved with the gig. You would have to question the relevance of the live concert given the prevalence of downloads which are far easier to deal with.

I feel that very few jazz artists have effectively achieved much traction with audiences in the last twenty years in the way that say was happening in the 80s and 90s. People no longer have the attention span to deal with more complex types of music including jazz and there is a massive difference in how music is consumed between the generations. Jazz is in danger of being irrelevent to most audiences and the lack of "big names" only serves to diminish it's significance. Chances are that the records that are currently being released that are being talked about are historic "lost" recordings. Jazz releases like those by Wynton in the 80s or even something like Miles' "Tutu" no longer get much coverage. I totally agree with the "reality" issues of contemporary jazz musicians mooted in the interview but if jazz is solely about the educative process, surely it is no longer relevant.

Personally, last year was the first year for me where I bought more classical music than jazz. Of those new, 2022 jazz recordings, I think about 3 were contemporary - broadly 50% of the number of ablums i bought of music by both Scarlatti and Scriabin. In addition, I did buy records by a few artists that were a few years old by the likes of Orrin Evans. I think that it is telling that the youngest member of the "bored" is also more likely to listen to Coltrane, Miles or Fusion which effectively covers a mutlitude of sins, none of which is newer than 35 years old.

There's a compelling case for investigating classical music trends one may discover in parallel, whether by accident or guidance - they can add information on how they are adaptable in jazz and maybe questions as to the hows, whys and wherefores. My own appreciation of 20th century classical modernism (in particular, rather than the pasticheing of eg Baroque in a good deal of so-called Progrock) has for me refreshed an ever fruitful ongoing dialogue between these two areas, alongside the cross-generic interchanges with eg Latin or Indian classical music more often referenced in jazz media.

One of the most marked characteristics of advanced capitalism has been acceleration - not least in technology, turnover, and the ever-shortening gaps between global economic upturns, but in the rapidifying exhaustion of resources, be they people and raw materials, or as manifested in the cultural field. In the latter one might almost speak of a greed to seize on and exploit to rapid exhaustion any discoveries to be made, thereafter leading to protracted periods of retroflection and nostalgia. The "age of co-option" and hegemonization has I believe defined the musically most progressive aspects of jazz as revolutionary placed in the context and demand of marketability and thus accessibility. This I think is what leads to the music's academicisation and standardisation when qualititative advance and change in the wider socio-political sphere is thwarted and cut short of fulfilment: the world of musical academia, funded and shaped by capitalist values, can see ways of transmogrifying novelty seen as for its own sake into product; the problem is in then conveying what has been thus packaged into the mindset of a buying public raised on throwaway provisionality. For a younger generation weaned on bling in it widest sense there are just too many issues: for an older generation half-minded through their past experience of the conviviality and sense of oneness jazz can engender the music no longer satisfies, through no fault of its own.

[Serial_Apologist]

A New Year tonic from Ben Holder.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jey0RRvVcnk

Nice, but Ben Holder???

[gradus]

Nice, but Ben Holder???

Ben is performing at Hadleigh in February and George Double sent out the video as a taster for the gig with due deference to Django,of course.

[Serial_Apologist]

Ben is performing at Hadleigh in February and George Double sent out the video as a taster for the gig with due deference to Django,of course.

[Tenor Freak]

Nine entertaining minutes of Han Bennink playing on a ratty old set of drums that in other circumstances would be hung up on a pub wall somewhere...