Jason digs into the Piet

[Ian Thumwood]

I could never stick Dave Brubeck back in the day: whether or not the heavy-handed unswingingness of the Bachian parody was intended seriously I never could make out, but if not the joke outstayed its welcome. When Monk played foursquare ON the beat, because his reputation was not to, his subtlety of timing made it sound as if he wasn't - if that makes any sense.

What I think is notable about Brubeck is the fact that his style has very little to do with any form of mainstream. He was never a bebop player and it is difficult to understand where his style originates from. If anyone, there are perhaps elements of Kenton in his playing? The music no longer sounds "modern" yet is does sound "different" and easily recognisable. I feel that Brubeck's stock increased as he got older and he was more interesting improvisor post-Paul Desmond. I would concede that his playing does seem heavy handed and unsubtle some times yet he seemed to be less inclined to do this in later years. I think that the strange thing about Brubeck's quartet is that most fans seem to lock on to the difference in approach between the ultra-smooth Desmond and the percussive Brubeck whereas I wonder how many people share my opinion that the drummer Joe Morello was perhaps the most interesting part of the band ? The JRR track swung like the clappers due to his efforts. I think there was a documentary I saw on line about Morello and the admiration he received from his fellow drummers was something that made me take note when I hear him in this quartet. From all accounts, he was a very respected musician.

I am probably more disinclined to write Brubeck off than SA and wonder if you had ever heard the delightfully incongruous album he made with Jimmy Rushing which I think is a gem. I love Rushing and he is one of my favourite jazz singers. Hooking up with Brubeck, the stylistic differences are swept away as rather meaningless. However, I do understand that there was genuinely a reaction against Brubeck by many jazz fans at the time.

Interesting to hear a studio "Snarky Puppy" record requested. I don't think I have heard them in the radio before although I had checked them out on Youtube before seeing this this year perform live. Like Brubeck, SP have quite a following amongst as young and "savvy" audience. I am not quite convinced they merit the attention but it is nice to hear something like this requested from time to time. I get the impression that not a great deal is happening in the music and think it is purely the groove element that is switching a younger demographic to get in to their music. Personally, I think Herbie did this stuff much better in the 1970s.

[Serial_Apologist]

I agree with everything you say above, Ian, except that it was Lloyd Davis on the drums on that particular date - someone I've not heard of, unless it's Morello under a pseudonym for contractual purposes. Ethan Everson's playing reminds me of Brubeck - I was pleased to note on this week's J to Z that The Bad Plus now has Orrin Evans as its new pianist: that first track was most impressive, I thought.

[Quarky]

Listening to Brubeck today, I thought I heard someone Classically trained. This may be confirmed by Wikipedia:

While serving in the military, Brubeck met Paul Desmond in early 1944.[11] He returned to college after serving nearly four years in the army, this time attending Mills College in Oakland. He studied under Darius Milhaud, who encouraged him to study fugue and orchestration, but not classical piano. While on active duty, he received two lessons from Arnold Schoenberg at UCLA in an attempt to connect with high modernist theory and practice.

[Serial_Apologist]

Listening to Brubeck today, I thought I heard someone Classically trained. This may be confirmed by Wikipedia:

While serving in the military, Brubeck met Paul Desmond in early 1944.[11] He returned to college after serving nearly four years in the army, this time attending Mills College in Oakland. He studied under Darius Milhaud, who encouraged him to study fugue and orchestration, but not classical piano. While on active duty, he received two lessons from Arnold Schoenberg at UCLA in an attempt to connect with high modernist theory and practice.

That's interesting about Schoenberg, which I hadn't known. Some of Brubeck's early jazz involvement was well put over in Ken Burns' TV series. Brubeck was interviewed in tears remembering returning from the army to his father's farm, and discovering that a neighbouring farmer was employing black workers who were BRANDED, just like cattle. There's no doubting his sincerity and devotion to the music, and Ian Thumwood is right in saying that his later playing was far better than the stuff for which he was famous in the 1950s.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes - Brubeck didn't like Schoenberg's teaching because it was based entirely on models from the German Classics Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms (anyone who knows the Fundamentals of Musical Composition will know the kind of thing) - whereas Milhaud was more open to a greater variety of "sources".

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Yes - Brubeck didn't like Schoenberg's teaching because it was based entirely on models from the German Classics Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms (anyone who knows the Fundamentals of Musical Composition will know the kind of thing) - whereas Milhaud was more open to a greater variety of "sources".

I always thought it significant that Cecil Taylor in his early interviews cited Brubeck as an influence. Me, never being a total "fan" of Cecil. But Brubeck can surprise, that lovely & sparce track "Audrey", dedicated to Ms Hepburn because Paul Desmond (a surprising "ladies man" along with the copious martinis) was infatuated with her. And there's an album Brubeck cut in amongst all the "Time Out", "Time Further Out", "Time I gave up" (sic) etc. called "Time In" which is genuinely a real surprise in its concision, taste and almost classic New York off centre piano tradition. That's the one for me.

BN.