Putting Rebecca on the map

[Serial_Apologist]

Sat 28 Sept
4pm - Jazz Record Requests
Alyn Shipton introduces listeners' requests across the full spectrum of jazz, today featuring discs by John Coltrane, Howard McGhee and Eliane Elias. The show moves to Sundays from next week.

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog

5pm - J to Z
Julian Joseph presents a session from keyboardist Rebecca Nash. The rising star and her group Atlas perform music from their debut album Peaceful King. And Dallas-born vocalist Jazzmeia Horn discusses recordings that have inspired her.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008vz1

12midnight - Geoffrey Smith's Jazz
Featuring a look at the troubled career of US trumpeter and vocalist Chet Baker (1929-88).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07mvsxx

There's still Jamie Cullum's The Jazz Show on Tues Oct 1 on Radio 2 at 9pm.

And The Portico Quartet appears on the new Unclassified, on R3 on Thurs 3 Oct, at 11pm.

[Serial_Apologist]

5pm - J to Z
Julian Joseph presents a session from keyboardist Rebecca Nash. The rising star and her group Atlas perform music from their debut album Peaceful King. And Dallas-born vocalist Jazzmeia Horn discusses recordings that have inspired her.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008vz1

The name of Rebecca Nash had been haunting me since posting this weekend's listings - and just now it became clear to me: Rebecca is or was the pianist in altoist Dee Byrne's band Entropi, whose eponymous album was recorded in 2014, and who did a really excellent set on here a year or two ago - one of the best of the younger bands on the UK scene. Let's all tune in!

BTW I'm sure I heard a couple of quotes from "The Benny Hill Show" theme in the Woody Herman track on JRR just now. What a hoot!!

[Ian Thumwood]

Listening to yet another set of J-Z by the seemingless endless supply of "one of the best of the younger bands on the UK scene." The opening Rebecca Nash track was pretty indicative for me of where a lot of contemporary British jazz currently stands. It is interesting to listening to this group, none of whom I have ever heard of. The music seems to have become far more technically advanced than when I first started listening by quite a long distance. Irrespective of the fact that Nash seemed so pleased with herself , it is not difficult to be impressed with the ability of these players. However, I found it really boring and difficult to connect with. For me, it is indicative of how the music colleges are producing these days. I like it but it is as if something is missing. Like so much contemporary jazz, the shock value and bite you expect from jazz sounds like it has been coached out. I have been listening to the likes of Art Pepper and Arthur Blythe this week, both of whom were major names at the time I was discovering jazz. Players like Rebecca Nash are interesting but I don't think there is the emotional connection there that you experience with players like Pepper and Blythe. Not fussed by the electronic tweets and whooshes either nor the singer. (A bit like a pop singer trying to ape Norma Luciana Sousa.) Who is this music for, exactly?

I would enjoy her group in a live set but like some much today, the critical acclaim seems a bit over-egged. The music seemed to reflect her self-important and pretentious character. She was really irritating in the interview. Listening to this track, I was really taken by the comments by Cassie Kinoshi in the interview that I posted here about 6 weeks ago and they seemed to resonate again. It is a little depressing that musicians who are so technically gifted are churning out material that is so indifferent. We have been here so often in recent years. I am finding this set to be really underwhelming although not quite as bad as the Laura Jurd set from a few months ago that ploughed similar territory with shockingly poor results. As best this music is middle of the road. At worst, it is totally pointless. Cassie Kinoshi's comments are really in the money.

Jazz when you thought that British jazz scene was starting to produce music that sounded like jazz.....

[Serial_Apologist]

One way to use electronics is to draw on effects that were once only possible in post-production, using studio technics. When Soft Machine and Robert Wyatt's Matching Mole did this in the early 1970s the electronic addenda had to be pre tape recorded and played against in fixed form. This is now possble to do in real time, be interacted with, and Rebecca Nash makes best use of two of her band's personnel with expertise in this area to wonderful effect. Rebecca and her guitarist manage to pull something off which must be very difficult to do, namely improvise rubato within her presumably fairly strict metrical set-ups, though maybe there's enough pre-composed complexity acting to stretch the beats, She has in Sarah Colman a great singer who is very much in the Christine Tobin mould, which will doubtless put some off here, but definitely not me; I don't often feel this with new sounds these days, but I'm really loving this. Here's her site:

http://www.rebeccanashmusic.com/about

I see Ian has drawn very different conclusions from me! Personally I don't feel one way or an other about Ms Nash personally - the impression she gives of herself could be ascribable to nervousness. It's a shame if our young musicians are expected to conform to the image making machine which oozes insincerity, so much in evidence in the media these days!

[Ian Thumwood]

I should also add that the Miles Davis track was a real non-event. This record has been receiving a lot of attention in the press this month but you an appreciate just why it was shelved. It would be kind to say that MD's 1980's output is mixed and the music now seems decidedly "middle of the road" as opposed to the kind of record that needed to be released. I am fascinated by these studio and concert releases which keep materialising and wonder if they really tell us anything. In the case of "Rubber band," it lacks the excitement of "The man with the horn" and is incumbered by a dated funk groove.

By contrast, the Louis Armstrong album trod familiar territory but offered the chance to hear some free-booting playing by the All stars which transcended their reputation as being deeply conservative. Of the two records, it was the Armstrong disc which merited the media attention and not the Davis disc.

[Ian Thumwood]

I see Ian has drawn very different conclusions from me! Personally I don't feel one way or an other about Ms Nash personally - the impression she gives of herself could be ascribable to nervousness. It's a shame if our young musicians are expected to conform to the image making machine which oozes insincerity, so much in evidence in the media these days!

Well, I think she sound pretty much up her own a""". I wasn't impressed. Far too serious. However, I would have to add that comparing any jazz singer to folk singer Christine Tobin is not a good starting point!! Mind you, I did not like Jazzmeia Horn either.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, I think she sound pretty much up her own a""". I wasn't impressed. Far too serious. However, I would have to add that comparing any jazz singer to folk singer Christine Tobin is not a good starting point!! Mind you, I did not like Jazzmeia Horn either.

Then I take it you won't be wending your way over to Bristol on Oct 30 then!

[Ian Thumwood]

Then I take it you won't be wending your way over to Bristol on Oct 30 then!

SA

I have a deep-rooted fear of Bristol for it is forever associated as the venue where I took my professional exams back in the late 80s/ early 90s! I break out in a sweat as soon as I go beyond Bath!

I don't think that Nash is someone whose music I could dislike and as I said, it sounded accomplished. However, It think technical excellence is a given these days and I have found myself getting less tolerant with musicians who depart from the tenets of true jazz these days. I would have loved this music back in the 1990s and would have shared your enthusiasm 20-30 years ago. But I think my tastes have become a little less tolerant in jazz although I do listen a lot to non-jazz music too. When I was discovering jazz Part of the appeal of discovering the music was that it had a shock value which I feel is really there nowadays. There is little that I hear which makes think that I need to apply myself to get in to this music. Perhaps the last example of this was the Henry Threadgill album "Dirt and more dirt". That is what I want from new jazz - the power to shock.

Oddly enough, when I heard the announcement for the programme, I initially imagined it was going to feature another pianist called Sarah Tandy who has been quite impressive.

Not quite sure how heavy hitting the current British crop really are but in an era where some of my heroes like Kenny Wheeler and John Taylor are no longer with us, the recorded jazz that has impressed me most in the last few years has been Peter Hurt's big band, Cassie Kinoshi's SEED ensemble and Jon Shenoy -of these, only CK has really received decent, widespread media coverage. From a live perspective, I have been hugely impressed by both Jon Shenoy and Ashley Henry at Winchester Jazz Festival last year (I missed most of this year's festival and the one gig I attended was poor.) Henry comes out of the 1950s piano tradition and when I chatted to him after the gig , he was obviously a massive fan of the likes of Ahmed Jamal. If I am totally honest, the trio Ashley Henry led was head and shoulders above Nash's group. They were right on the money even if their music was not as sophisticated or as ambitious as Nash's is. What I would say is that his approach is, to my ears, far more authentic. It sounds and feels like jazz. The groups this evening just sounded like jazz musicians flirting too heavily with folk. I know that there are plenty on here who love Tobin's voice and admire her music but her singing is not for me.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Ian you can still hear Ashley Henry on the last ever Jazz Now from last Monday via the BBC Sounds app

[Ian Thumwood]

Regarding JRR, there was some wonderful music chosen. Two of the tracks are favourites of mine. I love "Harlem Airshaft" and it was a record which made a massive impression on me when I was about fourteen. It is a brilliant arrangement and I can still remember listening to in on a tape recorder when I went on a family holiday to the North Yorkshire Moors. It is a tune which never loses it's appeal for me and I suppose more than any other made me appreciate the genius of Duke Ellington.

Ditto with the John Coltrane record. One of my favourites by the tenor saxophonist.

On top of this, I want to add some other comments. The Woody Herman track was fantastic and it was great to hear "Jazz Hoot" again. I had forgotten just how good Jake Hanna's drumming was on this record. The arrangement produces the kind of energy you usually associate with Charles Mingus and it is a timely reminder at just how good Herman's bands were.

Despite featuring two favourites, I feel compelled to post something about the Howard McGhee track. You can always rely on Jazzrook to select something interesting. McGhee is one of those players who has totally slipped from the consciousness of most jazz fans and musicians like that need to be requested. That said, the whole track was totally dominated by the piano playing of Phineas Newborn which made me put my work aside and listen to in concentration. He was an absolutely brilliant player. I know so little about him yet whenever something featuring his piano playing gets requested the performance is always extremely impressive. I know there are the likes of Bluesnik who likes his playing but for most people who listen to jazz he is probably the piano player with the most ability who is the most unknown. Some pianists seem to get reputations that need resurrecting and are championed by one or two adherents. For me, Newborn seems like a piano player who anyone who is serious about the instrument needs to be aware of. A couple of years ago there was a particularly bad gig at Vienne and I left midway through in order to listen to a group of local musicians perform in a bar in the town instead. I had a drink with the musicians afterwards and the piano player was really knowledgeable about the history of the instrument. One thing he was critical about was jazz education which had produced a series of robots and musicians who were unaware of the broader picture in jazz so that they were only appreciative of the most celebrated names. He cited Phineas Newborn as the best example of their ignorance and argued passionately that if the current crop of jazz musicians were sincere about the richness of the music they would have been would have been advocates of Newborn's playing. From recollection he was not enthused by the younger generation as they did not have the interest to explore jazz for themselves and were guided by their lecturers which curtailed their curiosity. He is the only person I have ever heard cite Newborn as being an important pianist and it was a really interesting discussion. For him, Newborn was one of the greats even though he was probably of the same generation as me.

The oddest track was the Eliane Elias request. Despite the track featuring the likes of Joe Lovano, Joey Baron and the uncredited John Scofield, the music was so low key to the point that practically nothing was happening. If you had written that line up down on paper, you would not have expect the music that was played to have sounded like that.

[Serial_Apologist]

Regarding JRR, there was some wonderful music chosen. Two of the tracks are favourites of mine. I love "Harlem Airshaft" and it was a record which made a massive impression on me when I was about fourteen. It is a brilliant arrangement and I can still remember listening to in on a tape recorder when I went on a family holiday to the North Yorkshire Moors. It is a tune which never loses it's appeal for me and I suppose more than any other made me appreciate the genius of Duke Ellington.

Ditto with the John Coltrane record. One of my favourites by the tenor saxophonist.

On top of this, I want to add some other comments. The Woody Herman track was fantastic and it was great to hear "Jazz Hoot" again. I had forgotten just how good Jake Hanna's drumming was on this record. The arrangement produces the kind of energy you usually associate with Charles Mingus and it is a timely reminder at just how good Herman's bands were.

Despite featuring two favourites, I feel compelled to post something about the Howard McGhee track. You can always rely on Jazzrook to select something interesting. McGhee is one of those players who has totally slipped from the consciousness of most jazz fans and musicians like that need to be requested. That said, the whole track was totally dominated by the piano playing of Phineas Newborn which made me put my work aside and listen to in concentration. He was an absolutely brilliant player. I know so little about him yet whenever something featuring his piano playing gets requested the performance is always extremely impressive. I know there are the likes of Bluesnik who likes his playing but for most people who listen to jazz he is probably the piano player with the most ability who is the most unknown. Some pianists seem to get reputations that need resurrecting and are championed by one or two adherents. For me, Newborn seems like a piano player who anyone who is serious about the instrument needs to be aware of. A couple of years ago there was a particularly bad gig at Vienne and I left midway through in order to listen to a group of local musicians perform in a bar in the town instead. I had a drink with the musicians afterwards and the piano player was really knowledgeable about the history of the instrument. One thing he was critical about was jazz education which had produced a series of robots and musicians who were unaware of the broader picture in jazz so that they were only appreciative of the most celebrated names. He cited Phineas Newborn as the best example of their ignorance and argued passionately that if the current crop of jazz musicians were sincere about the richness of the music they would have been would have been advocates of Newborn's playing. From recollection he was not enthused by the younger generation as they did not have the interest to explore jazz for themselves and were guided by their lecturers which curtailed their curiosity. He is the only person I have ever heard cite Newborn as being an important pianist and it was a really interesting discussion. For him, Newborn was one of the greats even though he was probably of the same generation as me.

The oddest track was the Eliane Elias request. Despite the track featuring the likes of Joe Lovano, Joey Baron and the uncredited John Scofield, the music was so low key to the point that practically nothing was happening. If you had written that line up down on paper, you would not have expect the music that was played to have sounded like that.

Well I agree with nearly all of that! - particularly your agreement with the pianist in the pub in Vienne's view that younger generation players here are being selectively inducted in "the tradition". Everyone seems to know all about Tubby Hayes, but quote others of that or subsequent generations and they probably will say they know little or nothing about them. As for Phineas, he was probably the most dazzling of his generation, but for me all his flash and dash does not take the music forward at that time, but relates back more to Bud Powell, rather as Oscar Peterson did to Errol Garner and Nat Cole.

[Ian Thumwood]

Well I agree with nearly all of that! - particularly your agreement with the pianist in the pub in Vienne's view that younger generation players here are being selectively inducted in "the tradition". Everyone seems to know all about Tubby Hayes, but quote others of that or subsequent generations and they probably will say they know little or nothing about them. As for Phineas, he was probably the most dazzling of his generation, but for me all his flash and dash does not take the music forward at that time, but relates back more to Bud Powell, rather as Oscar Peterson did to Errol Garner and Nat Cole.

I don't think the fact that he was a conservative really has any bearing on how he should be assessed. The recordings were made from mid 50s to mid 60s which was effectively a period of 10-20 from Powell's emergence on the scene. Seen from a point of nearly sixty years later, this is increasingly less relevant. Pianists such as Harold Mabern, James Williams, Mulgrew Miller and Geoff Keezer have all recognised him and Oscar Peterson suggested Newborn was the best of any pianist to follow in his wake. There was a passage in the track on Saturday where he soloed with both hands - not many pianists can do this. Let's not forget too that PN was good enough to generate a following outside of jazz. Listening to him play without the context of the critical noise which accompanied his music at the time, there is certainly little reason to consider him facile, lightweight or too flashy.

It is all too simple to distil jazz down to a handful of salient soloists on each instrument but it tends to diminish just how good jazz is as a result. Personally, I love exploring the obscure stuff. I think the main problem with being selective is that Charlie Parker is probably seen by most as the starting point and I have not heard many of the students I have encountered checking out what came before. The less celebrated stuff can also be interesting because it can often now sound better than it was at the time or more significant. It is also interesting to see musicians unfettered by production values or producer's whims which I felt was obviously the case with the Elias track which was something of a shock that it was so bland. I much preferred the Stenson trio and I feel that the Swede was one of ECM's best signings as he was far more connected with musicians like Ornette Coleman which pitches him broadly in the jazz tradition. He is another pianist I like to listen to. Not sure that something like the Elias track will be analysed in twenty years time. What was odd was it's total contrast to Phineas Newborn who dominated the record whereas the Brazilian pianist almost seemed reticent to put down anything other than gentle, McCoy-like chords. To call it anodyne would be a compliment. I find it intriguing the ECM develops such a loyal following. They are obsessed with stillness and almost glacial tempi with the music having a tendency to pull you in to listen. When it works, the results can be magical although when it doesn't, the music often sounds pointless. Sometimes the music is all veneer and no real substance. When I heard the music on this label for the first tie in the mid 80s I was spellbound by it. It is something I feel I grew out of, especially when I realised that the technical brilliance of the artists could also be found on other labels as has increasingly been the case since the 1990s.The best thing about the label is the sound production although even this seems somewhat artificial these days. It is a label I feel that is somewhat over-rated. It has produced some terrific recordings but also more than it's fair share of stuff which I feel is genuinely lightweight.

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't think the fact that he was a conservative really has any bearing on how he should be assessed. The recordings were made from mid 50s to mid 60s which was effectively a period of 10-20 from Powell's emergence on the scene. Seen from a point of nearly sixty years later, this is increasingly less relevant. Pianists such as Harold Mabern, James Williams, Mulgrew Miller and Geoff Keezer have all recognised him and Oscar Peterson suggested Newborn was the best of any pianist to follow in his wake. There was a passage in the track on Saturday where he soloed with both hands - not many pianists can do this. Let's not forget too that PN was good enough to generate a following outside of jazz. Listening to him play without the context of the critical noise which accompanied his music at the time, there is certainly little reason to consider him facile, lightweight or too flashy.

It is all too simple to distil jazz down to a handful of salient soloists on each instrument but it tends to diminish just how good jazz is as a result. Personally, I love exploring the obscure stuff. I think the main problem with being selective is that Charlie Parker is probably seen by most as the starting point and I have not heard many of the students I have encountered checking out what came before. The less celebrated stuff can also be interesting because it can often now sound better than it was at the time or more significant. It is also interesting to see musicians unfettered by production values or producer's whims which I felt was obviously the case with the Elias track which was something of a shock that it was so bland. I much preferred the Stenson trio and I feel that the Swede was one of ECM's best signings as he was far more connected with musicians like Ornette Coleman which pitches him broadly in the jazz tradition. He is another pianist I like to listen to. Not sure that something like the Elias track will be analysed in twenty years time. What was odd was it's total contrast to Phineas Newborn who dominated the record whereas the Brazilian pianist almost seemed reticent to put down anything other than gentle, McCoy-like chords. To call it anodyne would be a compliment. I find it intriguing the ECM develops such a loyal following. They are obsessed with stillness and almost glacial tempi with the music having a tendency to pull you in to listen. When it works, the results can be magical although when it doesn't, the music often sounds pointless. Sometimes the music is all veneer and no real substance. When I heard the music on this label for the first tie in the mid 80s I was spellbound by it. It is something I feel I grew out of, especially when I realised that the technical brilliance of the artists could also be found on other labels as has increasingly been the case since the 1990s.The best thing about the label is the sound production although even this seems somewhat artificial these days. It is a label I feel that is somewhat over-rated. It has produced some terrific recordings but also more than it's fair share of stuff which I feel is genuinely lightweight.

Again I'm mostly in agreement, especially as regards the Eliane track on JRR. I guess where we'll always be in disagreement is over how much weight to give to innovation in any period of jazz in assessing particular recordings or gigs, which in my case undoubtedly stems from the amount of dissing I remember being doled out on players like Ornette who were subsequently recognised at a time when critics were judged important arbiters in what was acceptible, when what they said and wrote could seal the fortunes of musicians trying to establish themselves amid scenes often riven with envy-driven hostility towards anything deemed to be supplanting existing orthodoxies, although there were always critics brave enough to stick their necks out in being able to distinguish the wheat from the chaff and offer those of us suspicious of anthing new which we didn't understand with useful critical perspectives to help guide us.