Latitude problems? Just smile and Graviton

[Quarky]

Interesting discussion - in fact so interesting it approached the fascinating analysis by Alan Barnes of tracks by various musicians that had influenced him. He hit various nails on the head, but the discussion of Rollins/ Without a Song exactly captured Sonny. He had reinforced his own voice while doing time on The Bridge, and this seemed to have greatly influenced Alan.
I guess it takes a great deal to discover your own voice and then the courage to follow it through. Alan seems to have done this. BN however has put this point much more eloquently above.

[Serial_Apologist]

Interesting discussion - in fact so interesting it approached the fascinating analysis by Alan Barnes of tracks by various musicians that had influenced him. He hit various nails on the head, but the discussion of Rollins/ Without a Song exactly captured Sonny. He had reinforced his own voice while doing time on The Bridge, and this seemed to have greatly influenced Alan.
I guess it takes a great deal to discover your own voice and then the courage to follow it through. Alan seems to have done this. BN however has put this point much more eloquently above.

Hmm - not so sure about that one. Hate to disagree with everyone, but are you saying Alan Barnes did his own period of woodshedding to acquire "his own voice"? Or that he respected Rollins for so doing - which is not quite the same thing? See, I don't hear that voice. My thoughts are that Barnes was much more moulded by the high pressure environment of his main learning curve, namely Tommy Chase's band. Immediately after leaving, his ambivalence towards Chase's vitriolic comments re the free scene and Arts Council etc sponsoring (and I can dig out the interview) were hard not to interpret as other than veiled admiration in the light of the new imperative to cosy up to businessmen under Straitened Thatcherite "new realities": essentially the same realities then shaping American jazz under Reaganomics, its image, style and ethos, in roughly that order, but with a Northern grit edge. Chase's denouncements deliberately ignored the co-operative movements that had sustained jazz through the free period, and sponsorship coming in in its wake, favouring a survivalist's angle of appeal on the market's terms or go under and deserve it, which was no longer where jazz needed to be unless it was to become a conservative movement of the status quo.

[Joseph K]

Hmm - not so sure about that one. Hate to disagree with everyone, but are you saying Alan Barnes did his own period of woodshedding to acquire "his own voice"? Or that he respected Rollins for so doing - which is not quite the same thing? See, I don't hear that voice. My thoughts are that Barnes was much more moulded by the high pressure environment of his main learning curve, namely Tommy Chase's band. Immediately after leaving, his ambivalence towards Chase's vitriolic comments re the free scene and Arts Council etc sponsoring (and I can dig out the interview) were hard not to interpret as other than veiled admiration in the light of the new imperative to cosy up to businessmen under Straitened Thatcherite "new realities": essentially the same realities then shaping American jazz under Reaganomics, its image, style and ethos, in roughly that order, but with a Northern grit edge. Chase's denouncements deliberately ignored the co-operative movements that had sustained jazz through the free period, and sponsorship coming in in its wake, favouring a survivalist's angle of appeal on the market's terms or go under and deserve it, which was no longer where jazz needed to be unless it was to become a conservative movement of the status quo.

Sounds, in light of this discussion, I need to listen to this edition of J to Z, and see what I make of Barnes' comments. Though if Serial's comments are anything to do by, I think I might already know what conclusion I might come to.

[Quarky]

Hmm - not so sure about that one. Hate to disagree with everyone, but are you saying Alan Barnes did his own period of woodshedding to acquire "his own voice"? Or that he respected Rollins for so doing - which is not quite the same thing? See, I don't hear that voice. My thoughts are that Barnes was much more moulded by the high pressure environment of his main learning curve, namely Tommy Chase's band. Immediately after leaving, his ambivalence towards Chase's vitriolic comments re the free scene and Arts Council etc sponsoring (and I can dig out the interview) were hard not to interpret as other than veiled admiration in the light of the new imperative to cosy up to businessmen under Straitened Thatcherite "new realities": essentially the same realities then shaping American jazz under Reaganomics, its image, style and ethos, in roughly that order, but with a Northern grit edge. Chase's denouncements deliberately ignored the co-operative movements that had sustained jazz through the free period, and sponsorship coming in in its wake, favouring a survivalist's angle of appeal on the market's terms or go under and deserve it, which was no longer where jazz needed to be unless it was to become a conservative movement of the status quo.

OK - will have to do some research on Alan before giving you a response.

In the meantime, Alan can count on his Mum for support: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi9xd0Qf3A

[Serial_Apologist]

OK - will have to do some research on Alan before giving you a response.

In the meantime, Alan can count on his Mum for support: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi9xd0Qf3A

Thanks Vespare. I'm currently catching up myself, listening to Ms Maurice on the iplayer from Saturday's J to Z, and enjoying it. Some might hold the fact that this is fusion against it - it's mostly what one might call Latin Funk, and strongly reminds me of Paz, a London-based 1970s and '80s band also using a synthesiser and braving freer areas, but with a flute player/saxophonist out front, Ray Warleigh, rather than trumpet. Sheila has a nice, round tone, a cool behind-the-beatness to her playing, and she takes risks with harmonic pacing in a Booker Little-ish way; none of them thankfully are flash merchants, and there is space for some lovely interplay. The guitar player reminds me strongly of Phil Lee's contributions in Paz too. The reference to Jade is not Jade Goody, btw! Well worth clicking on the link I've provided.

I'm on "Something" from that broadcast now - this gets better and better!

[Ian Thumwood]

Why are you all posting comments about jazz and not signing the petition against Boris proroguing Parliament ?

Do you not respect democracy ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ain'tcher never eard of "multi-tasking", Ian?!

[Ian Thumwood]

Ain'tcher never eard of "multi-tasking", Ian?!

Action required - the greatest threat to parliamentary sovereignty since Charles I.

I would urge people to sign the petition unless they want an English Mussolini to lead the country. And Boris doesn't even have a son who plays jazz piano!!

[Quarky]

Thanks Vespare. I'm currently catching up myself, listening to Ms Maurice on the iplayer from Saturday's J to Z, and enjoying it. Some might hold the fact that this is fusion against it - it's mostly what one might call Latin Funk, and strongly reminds me of Paz, a London-based 1970s and '80s band also using a synthesiser and braving freer areas, but with a flute player/saxophonist out front, Ray Warleigh, rather than trumpet. Sheila has a nice, round tone, a cool behind-the-beatness to her playing, and she takes risks with harmonic pacing in a Booker Little-ish way; none of them thankfully are flash merchants, and there is space for some lovely interplay. The guitar player reminds me strongly of Phil Lee's contributions in Paz too. The reference to Jade is not Jade Goody, btw! Well worth clicking on the link I've provided.

I'm on "Something" from that broadcast now - this gets better and better!

Yes, I tuned into Jazz Now last night and immediately enjoyed Ms Maurice. If they had played more of this stuff in earlier times, Jazz Now might have escaped the Guillotine.

[Old Grumpy]

Yes, I tuned into Jazz Now last night and immediately enjoyed Ms Maurice. If they had played more of this stuff in earlier times, Jazz Now might have escaped the Guillotine.

I do wonder why jazz is to suffer the effects of the Controller's guillotine [or be "rested" as the managementspeak has it]. Is it due to lack of listeners, lack of interest or lack of money, or a perhaps combination of all three? I for one have particularly been enjoying Geoffrey Smith's Jazz of late. Jazz Now probably suits my personal tastes ~ 50% of the time, but of course this doesn't mean it should be denied an existence! I have yet to catch up with the latest edition, but it is in my download folder on iPlayer radio, I look forward to hearing Ms Maurice offering.

OG

[Joseph K]

Not my cuppa I'm afraid. A revivalist. Safe choices. Nothing wrong with that but his alto solo on the version of "Boogie Stop Shuffle" he singled out would even have sounded old fashioned on the Mingus original... which just about sums him up, afaics.

Well, I noticed the contradiction between him saying a jazz musician's goal is to become instantly recognisable yet his playing is somewhat old-fashioned and anonymous.

Also can't see the point in listening to clips of tunes with Barnes talking over them...

[Old Grumpy]

Also can't see the point in listening to clips of tunes with Barnes talking over them...

Well, that's the concept of this particular feature on J to Z! There have been some fascinating insights in those featuring some other musicians, particularly, perhaps to those of us with less general musical knowledge than some who frequent these boards.

OG

[Quarky]

Thanks Vespare. I'm currently catching up myself, listening to Ms Maurice on the iplayer from Saturday's J to Z, and enjoying it. Some might hold the fact that this is fusion against it - it's mostly what one might call Latin Funk, and strongly reminds me of Paz, a London-based 1970s and '80s band also using a synthesiser and braving freer areas, but with a flute player/saxophonist out front, Ray Warleigh, rather than trumpet. Sheila has a nice, round tone, a cool behind-the-beatness to her playing, and she takes risks with harmonic pacing in a Booker Little-ish way; none of them thankfully are flash merchants, and there is space for some lovely interplay. The guitar player reminds me strongly of Phil Lee's contributions in Paz too. The reference to Jade is not Jade Goody, btw! Well worth clicking on the link I've provided.

I'm on "Something" from that broadcast now - this gets better and better!

Sheila has a nice, round tone, a cool behind-the-beatness to her playing, and she takes risks with harmonic pacing in a Booker Little-ish way; AGREED

The guitar player reminds me strongly of Phil Lee's contributions in Paz too. Some reservations about the guitar. Rather too loud at times and insistent on raising the levels of excitement...

[Joseph K]

Well, that's the concept of this particular feature on J to Z! There have been some fascinating insights in those featuring some other musicians, particularly, perhaps to those of us with less general musical knowledge than some who frequent these boards.

OG

Is it Ken Burns' jazz documentary that's abysmal - talks repeatedly about how jazz is art etc. etc. all the while exemplifying this by playing the music in the background underneath the narrator's voice. Moans about how the Beatles got big nicking black American music and apparently effectively shoulder-barging jazz out of the picture, then whinges about fusion (or rather, gives it much less air-time than earlier/other forms of jazz).

[Serial_Apologist]

Is it Ken Burns' jazz documentary that's abysmal - talks repeatedly about how jazz is art etc. etc. all the while exemplifying this by playing the music in the background underneath the narrator's voice. Moans about how the Beatles got big nicking black American music and apparently effectively shoulder-barging jazz out of the picture, then whinges about fusion (or rather, gives it much less air-time than earlier/other forms of jazz).

That's right. Not that I saw the extended series of Burns's documentaries about America, but the impressions I've been given by others who have are of a timely exoneration of American culture to fit in with its growing collective self-doubts, hingeing in part on the fact that America (even more than Britain) is just not ready for multiculturalism. That's my take on Burns, fwiw. Even though encrypted into the politics capitalism has globalised to its own ends, finding the right people for the cheapest jobs, its relativism raises too many awkward questions, insecurities leading to the assumption of absolutist positions invoking ideas of purity, and so on. Jazz is not thereafter seen as a universalising activity for anyone to take on and be enriched by, arising in spite of and as a critique of its national cultural backdrop, but ascribing in some almost mystical though actually deconstructible way to The American Dream. And for that to happen it has to conform in certain unchangeable and immediately recognisable traits and practices, the gestural "signifiers" of its belongingness we can then all agree it as being jazz and not some foreign imitation, and be part of the nation's life-affirming spirit of competition.