Woke Jazz movement

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4223

    Woke Jazz movement

    Wondered if anyone had read this article by Chris May ? He is a new journalist to me but has penned a piece that I thought was extremely interesting and provocative. In the light of seeing Kororoko this year, it was quite fascinating to see the wider picture of the current British jazz scene about which I feel really optimistic. However, the essay does raise some really interesting questions such as the validity of the current crop of white British musicians and the British avant garde in particular as well as the jazz education process in the UK. The article almost suggests that the Woke Jazz movement is going to make them irrelevant.

    I must admit that I took some of the points made with a pinch of salt although it does raise some ugly home truths. The process of jazz education implemented by the likes of Gary Crosby is now really starting to take root. From what I have heard of the few musicians from this movement that I have heard, I would have to say that this is a wake up call to a lot of the mediocre jazz being produced by white British musicians. It would appear to be the most interesting generation to materialise in the UK since the 1980s and also the one with the most potential. Whilst I found myself nodding in agreement to a lot of the observations as to what jazz should sound like and how it should react, there are a few points that I thought were over -optimistic with some of the musicians slated as being significant still being second year music students. May seems to be a bit purple in his prose albeit I agree with so many of the sentiments that this article raises. Unfortunately, the article is sometimes unbalanced . From what little I have heard by these musicians, I concur that the music produced is more authentic than a lot of the rather drab British jazz produced throughout the 2000s. So much British jazz post-1980s has not been that inspiring or is the product to rather unthinking academia. It has become stale. The Woke Jazz movement is undoubtedly a breath of fresh air that is sorely needed and I welcome this. The negative comments about so much contemporary British jazz and the kind of music taught is so salient and it is not too difficult to try to imagine the kind of musicians targeted for being "inauthentic", if you like. a number of names immediately sprung to my mind although May avoids listing them!





    I think that Jazzrook will find this fascinating as will SA, although I think the latter for wholly different reasons because the music celebrated is in marked contrast to so much of the more avant-leaning, white musicians he favours.

    Plenty of food for thought.
  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4314

    #2
    "I WOKE up this morning, had those generalising blues..
    ." I think I've read this kind of hype before and valid through some of the "critique" may, there's a hell of a lot of generalisation and simplification.

    And... "of its establishment, by the jazz police's put-downs of commercially successful bands such as Working Week...". No Larry, Working Week were shit, portentous and boring.

    Comment

    • Richard Barrett
      Guest
      • Jan 2016
      • 6259

      #3
      Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
      "I WOKE up this morning, had those generalising blues..
      ." I think I've read this kind of hype before and valid through some of the "critique" may, there's a hell of a lot of generalisation and simplification.
      The first line sort of works but the second doesn't really scan too well.

      Comment

      • Ian Thumwood
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 4223

        #4
        I would be curious to know who Chris May is. The reference to Larry Stabbins is a bit out of context with the rest of the article. The likes of Cassie Kinoshi have been featured quite a bit on the radio and I like what I have heard. Most of these musicians were hardly known 12-24 months ago and the article even goes so far as to suggest a number of names who will emerge in the next few years too.

        This statement is pretty telling in my opinion and maybe explains why there has been a problem with a lot of the more recent jazz artists coming from the UK. You can sense a reluctance to accept a conservatoire led approach and my mind immediately thought of players like Abado -Mullava and Laura Jurd, both of whom come from privileged backgrounds. I was also put in mind of groups like Phronesis who are exceptional from a technical point of view yet chillingly anodyne in an ECM-like kind of fashion. I felt that there was an underlying sense in a number of these interviews that these are exactly the kind of musicians the "Woke" movement is rebelling against even though I do have reservations about them being too aware of contemporary popular music and the disdain towards the avant garde. These quotes are interesting.....


        "One exciting thing is how much more diverse the scene is now compared to when Larry (Stabbins) retired. When I was at the Academy there was a very specific student demographic. It was privately educated, often Oxbridge. Basically it was people from financially comfortable backgrounds. So in a way they had the luxury of treating their music like high art. I got the sense that they saw any considerations of popularity or marketability as a corruption of the supposed purity of their music. But a lot of the guys I play with now never had that luxury. They never saw the will to make money from music as a bad thing.

        "There are also many more women making an impact now. I was literally the only girl on the jazz course at the Academy the whole time I was there. All the people who studied there were white and all the people we studied were white—and this is black music! The last five years have seen a total transformation in that respect. "

        This quotation is also really salient. I love the idea of jazz musicians having identities and I think the lack of recognisable voices has been a serious deficiency in a lot of contemporary jazz, especially in the UK where "originality" has often meant groups like "Polar Bear" or "Neil Cowley." I would also have to say that it does address the "problem" that contemporary jazz is full up with too many white people. No one seems to have been prepared to make this statement before yet ,whilst a lot of my own musical heroes are white, I think it is a salient point that most records reviewed, articles on line or musicians interviewed these days are by white musicians. I am also intrigued because there is an underlying critique in the article regarding social class, race and cultural identity. In effect, this is an article about a generation of musicians looking to reclaim the music and take it outside of academia.

        Here is another comment.....

        "Around that time we all started bringing into the music those things that formed our identity as black British people. For Moses it was garage influences. Nubya the same. And Sheila has West African heritage so she'd be bringing that in. And Zara McFarlane with lots of Caribbean music. It all flowed into the music and it built a fan base that wanted to relate to that experience, because that was their identity too. We started to realise, wow, there are people like us that we can play to. So the black British experience is in there. A lot of our cultural experiences started coming through in the way we played—how we improvise, the kind of bass lines, the kind of melodies. You can have technique but ultimately we all have to ask ourselves, what is my identity?"


        However, a lot of this article unfortunately reminds me of the kind of puff put out about Courtney Pine in the 1980s and the fact that the better black British musicians seemed to be those like Jason Yarde and Denys Baptiste who by-passed the media circus and established themselves as first call jazz musicians. I did read the article wondering how many of the names were hyped and, given the long term evolution of jazz artists, just how many of these musicians would still be talked about in 20 years time. I can appreciate the influence of popular music like Drum n' Bass but I remain to be convinced if this is really the best way for jazz develop and if it is simply a "cut and paste" exercise with the music. (Dance music with jazz saxophone planted on top.)

        I did post the link to the article because I felt it was provocative and knew that most people on this board would be sceptical. However, I would have to say that, without being familiar with much of this music, it is a very welcome diversion from some of the less-than-inspiring jazz fare I feel the media has built up in this country only to lose interest. "Lead Bib" , anyone ? I am intrigued to check a lot of this stuff out and just hope that it lives up to the expectations.

        From a personal perspective, I would have to say that I am reluctant to be influenced by what the media may be saying what kind of jazz I should be listening to and would rather come to it by my own curiosity. The article will, however, make me keep an ear open to what they have to offer and I heartily concurred with some of the comments these musicians have made in observing current jazz scene. Perhaps the article is overhyped in some respects yet there is a lot of truth there too.
        Last edited by Ian Thumwood; 18-08-19, 20:33.

        Comment

        • muzzer
          Full Member
          • Nov 2013
          • 1193

          #5
          “From a personal perspective, I would have to say that I am reluctant to be influenced by what the media may be saying what kind of jazz I should be listening to and would rather come to it by my own curiosity.“
          I agree with this as a general rule on all fronts. I’m also very wary of the implication referred to that anyone is limited by their background in the art they can identify with or explore. That way lies repression and the end of culture. I accept the economic issues of course, it has to be a given that society works towards enabling everyone. PS does anyone else detest the expression “woke”?

          Comment

          • Ian Thumwood
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 4223

            #6
            This is an extremely negative review from across the States of a new disc by some of the artists mentioned in the article:-

            hthttps://jazztimes.com/reviews/albu...-blume-domino/


            I have to say that I found this review unnecessarily unpleasant.
            Last edited by Ian Thumwood; 19-08-19, 06:36.

            Comment

            • CGR
              Full Member
              • Aug 2016
              • 370

              #7
              Originally posted by muzzer View Post
              “ I’m also very wary of the implication referred to that anyone is limited by their background in the art they can identify with or explore. That way lies repression and the end of culture. I accept the economic issues of course, it has to be a given that society works towards enabling everyone. PS does anyone else detest the expression “woke”?
              Yep. Reminds me of those silly old comments about only British orchestras being able to really interpret the music of Elgar etc. And of course the eternal question of: 'Can a blue man play the whites?'

              The fundamental point must be is that all music is for everyone.

              Comment

              • CGR
                Full Member
                • Aug 2016
                • 370

                #8
                Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
                This is an extremely negative review from across the States of a new disc by some of the artists mentioned in the article:-

                hthttps://jazztimes.com/reviews/albu...-blume-domino/


                I have to say that I found this review unnecessarily unpleasant.
                I've just been watching various YouTube videos of the band. Some nice stuff, but nothing special, nothing to make me want to buy their CD.
                The comments in the review were just nasty. I'm surprised they passed the editorial process.

                Comment

                • Jazzrook
                  Full Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3109

                  #9
                  Ian

                  "I would be curious to know who Chris May is."

                  Chris May edited Black Music magazine which I bought during the late 1970s & early '80s.
                  Foolishly I disposed of all my back copies which are now very collectible.



                  JR

                  Comment

                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37814

                    #10
                    Originally posted by CGR View Post
                    I've just been watching various YouTube videos of the band. Some nice stuff, but nothing special, nothing to make me want to buy their CD.
                    The comments in the review were just nasty. I'm surprised they passed the editorial process.
                    Take of the first "ht" of the URL on Ian's link, and you'll find it works.

                    I think I may have seen Nerija at The Cockpit a few years ago: nice music, but I may be mistaking them for another band.

                    I need a bit more time to read Ian's originally linked article, about which I'm feeling quite conflicted at the moment.

                    Comment

                    • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4314

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                      Take of the first "ht" of the URL on Ian's link, and you'll find it works.

                      I think I may have seen Nerija at The Cockpit a few years ago: nice music, but I may be mistaking them for another band.

                      I need a bit more time to read Ian's originally linked article, about which I'm feeling quite conflicted at the moment.
                      Ian..."However, a lot of this article unfortunately reminds me of the kind of puff put out about Courtney Pine in the 1980s and the fact that the better black British musicians seemed to be those like Jason Yarde and Denys Baptiste who by-passed the media circus and established themselves as first call jazz musicians"

                      Exactly that Ian, my impression entirely. I'm sure there are some fine and committed young players emerging, but I'm not sure they are best served by this kind of overblown "new dawn". I'm of an advanced age when the moment someone refers to the death of anything (Paul Mason, "the death of greed" after the banking meltdown) or the new or "birth", (Chuka, "the new politics"), I reach for my AK47 ( metaphorically in case the cops read this). Someone is trying to SELL you fantasy.

                      BN.

                      Comment

                      • Old Grumpy
                        Full Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 3643

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                        Take of the first "ht" of the URL on Ian's link, and you'll find it works.

                        I think I may have seen Nerija at The Cockpit a few years ago: nice music, but I may be mistaking them for another band.

                        I need a bit more time to read Ian's originally linked article, about which I'm feeling quite conflicted at the moment.
                        Thanks S-A. I was wondering why I just got a blank screen on my phone. The reviewer's command of English is not that good either.

                        I have only heard Nerija on J to Z - sounded OK to me, but then my tastes would probably be considered somewhat "vanilla" by some.

                        OG

                        Comment

                        • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 4314

                          #13
                          A swerve away from Ian's topic perhaps, but for comparison, this is a much lauded YOUNG American female saxophonist, Matana Roberts from Chicago. She's had strong reviews and promotion from the New Yorker and the NYT and the Organissimo board seem enthusiastic. Here she is (alto) with Marc Ribot on acoustic guitar in 2013. I listened because I thought I should but... really? Me (aged15) and my mate used to do this "stuff" in the front room with a tape recorder and kid ourselves we were cool. Cmon, emperor's clothes?

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37814

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post

                            I'm of an advanced age when the moment someone refers to the death of anything (Paul Mason, "the death of greed" after the banking meltdown) or the new or "birth", (Chuka, "the new politics"), I reach for my AK47 ( metaphorically in case the cops read this). Someone is trying to SELL you fantasy.

                            BN.
                            My eyesight not being so good these days, I tend to reach for my c90s and D90s!

                            Comment

                            • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 4314

                              #15
                              "You're never alone with a C90"! Ahh the nostalgia of that guy peeling the cellophane wrapper from a pristine TDK cassette tape in the empty dawn streets of London. Or was it a "Strand" cigarette? No, it was a Sony 120...

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