What has a famous American Fusion drummer in common with a Surrey village?

[Serial_Apologist]

Answers on A3, please.

Sat 27 July
5pm - Jazz Record Requests
Alyn Shipton introduces listeners' requests across the jazz spectrum, today featuring John Coltrane, Ella Fitzgerald, Lionel Hampton and Albert Ayler.

Note the later start time, due to the 3pm Afternoon Proms. That by the way has our much-praised pianist Kit Downes among the roster of experimentalists "... with found sounds, new instruments, electronics and the outer limits of the human voice". Don't take the dog along. That's me saying that.

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog

6pm - J to Z
Jumoké Fashola invited Panamanian-American jazz-fusion drummer Billy Cobham, whose career has included stints with the Mahavishnu Orchestra and Miles Davis, to share a personal pick of recordings that have inspired him. Plus sessions by Scottish bands Mezcla and Graham Costello's Strata, recorded last month at the Glasgow Jazz Festival.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00075dy

12midnight - Geoffrey Smith's Jazz
Geoffrey Smith celebrates the music of American trumpeter Woody Shaw (1955-89), who won praise for his brilliant technique and storytelling power across the jazz spectrum, with Eric Dolphy, Miles Davis and Wynton Marsalis among his fans.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00075f4

Mon 29 July
11pm- Jazz Now
Soweto Kinch introduces the Wynton Marsalis Quartet in an exclusive concert recorded on 13 July at the Cheltenham Music Festival.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007553

On Tues 30 July Jamie interviews London-based trumpeter, vocalist and visual artist Sheila Maurice-Grey on his 9pm programme on Radio 2

[Old Grumpy]

As presented on the "New Posts" lists, this thread title appears as "What has a famous American Fusion drummer in common with a Surrey".

The answer, of course would be: The Fringe on Top


OG

[Serial_Apologist]

As presented on the "New Posts" lists, this thread title appears as "What has a famous American Fusion drummer in common with a Surrey".

The answer, of course would be: The Fringe on Top


OG

Could it even be Beyond The Fringe??

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Could it even be Beyond The Fringe??

Interesting little clip of Wyton Marsalis playing "Embraceable You" from the body of the hall at Cheltenham this July. Coming up on Monday night, R3 as above. Not a huge fan of Mr M but he does have a nice tone, at least in this clip. Will listen in full on Monday.

http://youtu.be/6HsPcaW1-Tk

[Ian Thumwood]

Interesting little clip of Wyton Marsalis playing "Embraceable You" from the body of the hall at Cheltenham this July. Coming up on Monday night, R3 as above. Not a huge fan of Mr M but he does have a nice tone, at least in this clip. Will listen in full on Monday.

http://youtu.be/6HsPcaW1-Tk

Never understood why Wynton gets such a bad press for the music he produces. There are plenty of other trumpet players around who are similarly conservative such as Jeremy Pelt and you never read any bad press about his work despite ploughing the 1960's Miles' tradition. It always struck me as being strange that the one trumpet player who followed in Marsalis' wake who I have always felt was seriously over-rated is Terrence Blanchard and he never seems to get any criticism either. There is something rather cold and "un-jazz" like in his tone that has put me off his playing and the negative impression was reinforced hearing his play live this summer. Not 100% sure it wasn't anything to do with the acoustics, but I had the impression that he wasn't a particularly accurate technician. I am appreciative that he has produced film scores and long, ambitious works yet the sound he produces on his trumpet sounds as "wrong" to me as someone like Chris Botti, Harry James or Ziggy Elman although they are all dissimilar . I really don't like his playing. I would also have to say that , setting aside my reservations about the tone he produces, I am not that convinced that he particularly technical.

It is funny that whilst the jazz world is obsessed with saxophonists, the combative and masculine role of the jazz trumpeter still remains a potent image that , to a large extent, has remained since the days of Oliver and Keppard. Picking up on SA's earlier comments about the ability of British trumpeters, it is interesting that the two most high profile musicians in recent years , Yazz Ahmed and Laura Jurd, are both women. I would have to say that both of these have under-whelmed me. I struggle to take the first too seriously (early days for her, I think) whereas Jurd has the chops and ability but is an absolutely terrible composer. I cannot listen to her writing. ( I expressed my reservations to a quite well-known musician who , unbeknown to me, had personal experience of her compositions and he commented in agreement that she was under a lot of pressure by the record label to write her own material which he described as sub-standard. I am not prepared to reveal who this was. That said, you would never find the likes of Marsalis performing some of the dross she produced on the J-Z concert by an acoustic version of "Dinosaur." In 40 years of listening to jazz, this has to be one of the worst and most embarrassing performances I have heard broadcast. It was unforgivable. ) However, I am not particularly convinced that, as a soloist, Blanchard is significantly stronger than Jurd despite the better profile he enjoys. None of these players seems as compelling as the likes of Scott, Douglas, Finlayson or Akinmusire who have really followed on from the likes of Wynton and indeed the late, great Roy Hargrove who seemed to be able to cover all bases from Dizzy-esque elan through to the funk of RH Factor. I am appreciative that Blanchard has been quite varied too yet think that those who wish to judge Wynton harshly could more easily turn a more critical ear elsewhere. If you want to laud female trumpet players, perhaps someone like Ingrid Jenson is more meriting serious praise - especially if you are coming from the direction of admiring a player like the late Kenny Wheeler.

Marsalis would win every time for me over Ahmed and Jurd whereas I think that Akinmusire and Jonathan Finlayson are the players to listen out for at the moment - assuming that everyone has come to the party already with Dave Douglas. I find it a bit lazy for people to keep kicking Wynton who might be conservative but still has high standards. The problem for me is that, in the rush for the new, a lot of really average jazz is being produced and I think too many people turn a blind eye to this. Never read anything negative about Blanchard and even when people are critical about a local talent like Laura Jurd, they are almost apologetic about it. Wynton seems a soft target and it is boring reading the constant negative reviews of his playing where people trot out the same mantra but are not actually listening to the music he produces! I think that there needs to be a lot more balance.

[antongould]

Really enjoyed JRR this week a very fine mix I thought .......

[Joseph K]

Really enjoyed JRR this week a very fine mix I thought .......

I wasn't so keen on a corny version of the Beatles' 'I Will'.

[Serial_Apologist]

I wasn't so keen on a corny version of the Beatles' 'I Will'.

I shall have to catch up sometime - off to the Vortex for some free improv this afternoon, hopefully.

Reading what Ian has to say about current trumpet players, I'm wondering if his criticism of those who underplay Marsalis can be answered by pointing out that Wynton set out to establish exceptionally high technique playing standards, and while these are important, obviously, they are not the be-all and end-all governors of jazz standards - appropriateness to context is, which is in large part historically linked. My own feeling is that Miles was aware in both senses of Wynton's cleaned-up Miles approach, which he remarked by saying in so many words, why is he repeating what we did already? It may be that coming in Wynton's wake Blanchard et al are being judged by those Marsalis-imposed defintions of high quality.

Last night's Geoffrey Smith programme on Woody Shaw offered the kind of vantage point on such issues I am advocating. Whether or not it was Shaw who offered a pathway alternative to free form or fusion in the 1970s/80s was a controversial angle. I think the premature death of Booker Little robbed us of a huge emerging talent: like Woody, Dolphy was his mentor.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I shall have to catch up sometime - off to the Vortex for some free improv this afternoon, hopefully.

Reading what Ian has to say about current trumpet players, I'm wondering if his criticism of those who underplay Marsalis can be answered by pointing out that Wynton set out to establish exceptionally high technique playing standards, and while these are important, obviously, they are not the be-all and end-all governors of jazz standards - appropriateness to context is, which is in large part historically linked. My own feeling is that Miles was aware in both senses of Wynton's cleaned-up Miles approach, which he remarked by saying in so many words, why is he repeating what we did already? It may be that coming in Wynton's wake Blanchard et al are being judged by those Marsalis-imposed defintions of high quality.

Last night's Geoffrey Smith programme on Woody Shaw offered the kind of vantage point on such issues I am advocating. Whether or not it was Shaw who offered a pathway alternative to free form or fusion in the 1970s/80s was a controversial angle. I think the premature death of Booker Little robbed us of a huge emerging talent: like Woody, Dolphy was his mentor.

Woody Shaw, live with Johnny Griffin (I think in Germany), lovely solo with all the Shaw hallmarks and lyricism. Wonderful. And touching to see Johnny Griffin's embrace at the end, Shaw's life was no bed of roses...

http://youtu.be/2YhRMN8nufY

And re Booker Little, also a life too short, he repeatedly cited Kenny Dorham as the "unsung". As did Shaw.

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Woody Shaw, live with Johnny Griffin (I think in Germany), lovely solo with all the Shaw hallmarks and lyricism. Wonderful. And touching to see Johnny Griffin's embrace at the end, Shaw's life was no bed of roses...

http://youtu.be/2YhRMN8nufY

And re Booker Little, also a life too short, he repeatedly cited Kenny Dorham as the "unsung". As did Shaw.

As did Kenny Wheeler . I have a KW quote where he says he (Kenny) never managed to master bebop trumpet playing properly, and felt very insecure about it until he came across Booker's work.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Thanks for the kind comments on JRR - and sorry not everyone liked the Jacqui Dankworth track...
Look forward to hearing what people make of the full Wynton quartet set on Monday night, now we're getting to the final eight editions of Jazz Now.... Still we've got the Goldings / Bernstein / Stewart trio to come from Soho JF....and one or two more surprises!

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks for the kind comments on JRR - and sorry not everyone liked the Jacqui Dankworth track...
Look forward to hearing what people make of the full Wynton quartet set on Monday night, now we're getting to the final eight editions of Jazz Now.... Still we've got the Goldings / Bernstein / Stewart trio to come from Soho JF....and one or two more surprises!

And thanks in return, Alyn. Jazz is one of the shrinking areas of musical coverage where Radio 3 has maintained the networks' high standards and principles. Jazz Now will be much missed by me - hopefully The Powers That Be will come up with another like programme of similar quality, ere too long.

[Ian Thumwood]

I have to admit that "Ring 'dem bells" has always been an absolute favourite of mine. The all-star sessions that Lionel Hampton put together in the late thirties and early forties are always a source of wonder and provide an almost unprecedented snap shot of the status of jazz soloists at the time that is only rivalled by the similarly star-studded performances by Billie Holiday for Columbia. Part of the fascination is the fact that the line ups are often a cut and shuffle of musicians from two big bands that happen to have been in New York at the time . "Ring 'dem bells" is one of the best tracks and I would have to admit that I much prefer it to Ellington's original version. For free-swinging jazz, the records are on a par with Goodman's small groups at the time - of course, the likes of Jess Stacey, Charlie Christian and Cootie Williams also pop up with both Goodman and Hampton.

I find Hampton to be a frustrating musician. At his best (as on these Victor recordings) I feel he is imperious yet there are moments later in his career where tastefulness goes out of the window. Lionel Hampton was one of my Dad's heroes so I grew up listening to his music. The all-star sessions for Victor always seem to be his crowning glory outside of the work with the BG Quartet and there is always a degree of excitement picking through the personal. There is one record which has Coleman Hawkins, Chu Berry and Ben Webster in the same line up from recollection ("When lights are low") as well as Benny Carter. I also like "Hot mallets" which opens with the wild Dizzy Gillespie solo. They always strike me as representing the "state of play" within jazz at the time and a potent reminder of how strong jazz was from the point of view of individualist soloists at that time. In most cases, you can pretty much identify the soloists without the need for a discography. For me, they are a high point in jazz and an essential element in the history of the music. It was a shame that this policy of performing with musicians extracted from big bands did not continue throughout the 40s and 50's or at least to allow the incorporation of musicians like Charlie Parker in to the line ups. I have always been curious as to how these sessions were instigated and whether Hampton was familiar with these musicians with the musicians perhaps being extracted from a little book of his contacts.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Thanks for the kind comments on JRR - and sorry not everyone liked the Jacqui Dankworth track...
Look forward to hearing what people make of the full Wynton quartet set on Monday night, now we're getting to the final eight editions of Jazz Now.... Still we've got the Goldings / Bernstein / Stewart trio to come from Soho JF....and one or two more surprises!

Listening back now to Wynton now at Cheltenham. Surprisingly conservative (small c) for me, maybe because I haven't paid him that much attention for years. Very pleasant (not a putdown) and as comfortable as slippers. Interesting that he said he wanted younger philosophical opinions that could shock against that background. But highly professional & personable etc. And that "Embraceable You" really was lovely. Reminded me of the Chet Baker ballad tracks from Barclay in 50s Paris.
That good. Ohh be quiet at the back!

* The blues at the end was also v. fine. He's turning into Joe Newman or someone!

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Listening back now to Wynton now at Cheltenham. Surprisingly conservative (small c) for me, maybe because I haven't paid him that much attention for years. Very pleasant (not a putdown) and as comfortable as slippers. Interesting that he said he wanted younger philosophical opinions that could shock against that background. But highly professional & personable etc. And that "Embraceable You" really was lovely. Reminded me of the Chet Baker ballad tracks from Barclay in 50s Paris.
That good. Ohh be quiet at the back!

* The blues at the end was also v. fine. He's turning into Joe Newman or someone!

BN.

Not going soft in your old age, I hope, Bluesie!