The Day The Music Burned

[Jazzrook]

A shocking story of the incineration of master recordings by John Coltrane, Albert Ayler, Pharoah Sanders, Charles Mingus, Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra and more:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html

JR

[teamsaint]

A tragic story of the incineration of master recordings by John Coltrane, Albert Ayler, Pharoah Sanders, Charles Mingus, Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra and more:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-master-recordings.html

JR

Astonishing that they made copies of the masters and then kept them in the same storage facility. Sheryl Crow was talking about this before Glastonbury, and was saying that there was material of hers never released, and which she might have returned to at some point, but which is now lost.

[Stanfordian]

Astonishing that they made copies of the masters and then kept them in the same storage facility. Sheryl Crow was talking about this before Glastonbury, and was saying that there was material of hers never released, and which she might have returned to at some point, but which is now lost.

Reminds me rather of the era when the BBC taped over recordings or didn't save them. - Either stupidity or laziness for not seeing the value of back catalogue.

[Serial_Apologist]

Reminds me rather of the era when the BBC taped over recordings or didn't save them. - Either stupidity or laziness for not seeing the value of back catalogue.

And now we have official broadcasting bodies asking if people have spare recordings of the fm originals, unauthorised and arguably illegally downloaded on tape!

[MrGongGong]

I find this whole thing a bit interesting / puzzlling

Much as I'm as guilty as most in here of amassing huge amounts of recorded music I do wonder how much a "tragedy" it really is?
One of the things I often talk about with student composers is that there really is enough music in the world already without adding any more.
Some traditions have had "closed repertoires" where NO more is created.

So while I'm as eager as others to hear things from the past maybe it's not such a bad thing to have a clear out once in a while?

Reminds me rather of the era when the BBC taped over recordings or didn't save them. - Either stupidity or laziness for not seeing the value of back catalogue.

All depends on what you regard as "signal" and what you regard as "noise".
A while back I did some work with the Wigmore Hall archives with BTEC students. I wanted to make a piece out of BBC recordings but only use the applause between pieces (the whole "clapping in the right/wrong place" malarkey) after the time when the tape was re-used there was a time when the pieces were retained and the other sounds deleted...... so very little survives

[teamsaint]

Tragedy is certainly a bad word for it. I do feel sorry for people who had work that didn't exist elsewhere that has been destroyed.

GG, you must have gone back to pieces of work that you didn't finish, couldn't use, wanted to rework years later and found things that were well worth having kept ?

There is an tendency in the industry of milking old and substandard material ( I noticed a 6 CD set of Miles Davis " On the Corner " the other day, that I think may well be in that category, )and as you say, there is probably better stuff for us all to investigate that is out there waiting for us.

That said, in our business we often find ( and in fact look for) material that failed commercially first time round, but which has value and can be re -presented in a more interesting and more viable way.

[Joseph K]

( I noticed a 6 CD set of Miles Davis " On the Corner " the other day, that I think may well be in that category, )

See, or hear rather, for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YQ0C-GTFo&t=7230s

(I haven't listened to all of it but you were probably correct anyway).

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I find this whole thing a bit interesting / puzzlling

Much as I'm as guilty as most in here of amassing huge amounts of recorded music I do wonder how much a "tragedy" it really is?
One of the things I often talk about with student composers is that there really is enough music in the world already without adding any more.
Some traditions have had "closed repertoires" where NO more is created.

So while I'm as eager as others to hear things from the past maybe it's not such a bad thing to have a clear out once in a while?



All depends on what you regard as "signal" and what you regard as "noise".
A while back I did some work with the Wigmore Hall archives with BTEC students. I wanted to make a piece out of BBC recordings but only use the applause between pieces (the whole "clapping in the right/wrong place" malarkey) after the time when the tape was re-used there was a time when the pieces were retained and the other sounds deleted...... so very little survives

Heinrich Boll - "Murke's collected silences". 1958 short story...

"The real nature of his discontent, however, is revealed toward the end of the story. From the edited tapes Murke (a German radio studio engineer) collects silences—the places where a speaker pauses for a moment—and keeps them on tape. It is his pleasure to play the tapes in his spare time both as a respite from the demands of his work and as a means of keeping sane."

It's very good.

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Heinrich Boll - "Murke's collected silences". 1958 short story...

"The real nature of his discontent, however, is revealed toward the end of the story. From the edited tapes Murke (a German radio studio engineer) collects silences—the places where a speaker pauses for a moment—and keeps them on tape. It is his pleasure to play the tapes in his spare time both as a respite from the demands of his work and as a means of keeping sane."

It's very good.

BN.

As a child, my parents would take me to a church on Sundays, where the sermons were guaranteed to make congregation members fall asleep. The vicar had a subtle (or not so subtle) way of re-gaining his erstwhile listeners' attentions: he would pause.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Politicians do/used to do that for rhetorical affect. The famous one of Harold Wilson at a naval dockyard closure in the 60's. "Well, what do you want me to do about it?", shouted Harold (pause)..."Resign, you useless Bastard!" the crowd responded in the gap.

BN.

[MrGongGong]

Heinrich Boll - "Murke's collected silences". 1958 short story...

"The real nature of his discontent, however, is revealed toward the end of the story. From the edited tapes Murke (a German radio studio engineer) collects silences—the places where a speaker pauses for a moment—and keeps them on tape. It is his pleasure to play the tapes in his spare time both as a respite from the demands of his work and as a means of keeping sane."

It's very good.

BN.

Thanks
reminds me of

https://delaurenti.net/chapters/

https://delaurenti.net/favorite/

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks
reminds me of

https://delaurenti.net/chapters/

https://delaurenti.net/favorite/

I wrote yesterday about the sense of expectancy that precedes a work one has not heard before: it could be a premiere of a written piece, or a totally imrprovised piece which will never be repeated. In the latter case it can be felt important to give as much of one's undivided attention to what comes, since it will be for the first and last time. Hopefully one trusts in the musicians to bring it off, or goes on another's recommendation. The music might begin hesitantly, as on that Elton Dean Quartet Bologna recording, but it 's fascinating how the musicians are able there to feel their way towards a sort of consensus on which to proceed, and, as a listener, one might - without necessarily possessing the vocabulary to explain to oneself or afterwards what went on - venture an inward opinion as to what is happening, and how they are able to carry on, along the way initiating possible new directions which are then responded to and either taken up or not. The degree of liberation from needing to impose ones own ideas as to how this is to happen provide the measure of success, or preparedness involved.

[pastoralguy]

I know this is slightly off topic but the amount of lost film is unbelievable. So much was sacrificed in nitrate vault fires in storage facilities and the fact that producers saw the movies they created as being 'product' that had a lifespan and was then obsolete so was not worth the time, money and energy to conserve it. Even the most famous names have films in 'lost' lists. Coupled with the fact that film contained a degree of silver in their chemical makeup that could be recycled made the destruction of these movies almost inevitable.

[muzzer]

I think it’s bad enough Universal had all this irreplaceable material stored so casually. It’s even worse that it took them 10 years to own up to it. Quantifying the loss is impossible, both financially and philosophically. To say nothing of the sense of history being rubbed out in an era when history is...being rubbed out. There’s a good novel in it, of that I am sure ;)

[CGR]

Any news on the legal impacts of the fire.

Do the musicians have any right to damages? If so this could destroy the company, which may not be a bad thing given their negligence.