Just watched the BBC 4 programme, I thought it was a bit of a curates egg - really liked the Joshua Redman and Camilla George not so keen on the corny "gee whiz" presentation.
What do you think?
elmo
What do you think?
elmo
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Elmo
I had forgotten this programme was on and only caught up with it after "Have I got news for you" had finished. I agree with your assessment as I liked both those artists plus Robert Mitchell. Part of me was quite optimistic about this programme. For ages, British jazz has been dominated by artists like Phronesis, Neil Cowley, Ivo Neame and Laura Jurd. Every year there seems to be a new name lapped up by the jazz press with records frequently over-praised. I keep thinking whether what is being produced has the same clout as what British musicians were producing in the 70's and 80's. I think we have long since reached the point when British players are as technically accomplished as their American counterparts but the music has often either been gimmicky or cold and austere. At last here is a new generation of musicians about which you can be optimistic. They seemed so much better than a lot of the British jazz championed over the last few years. I think a lot of the players featured tonight managed to communicate with their music in a way that I personally feel has been lost a lot in the UK scene since the late 1990's. For me, I have not really found a lot of contemporary British jazz that interesting and there seemed to be a disconnection with what was being played and the emotional content. I did wonder just how much of what was played was representative of the current scene and too much attention was given to performing music by artists from the original series as opposed to concentrating on what they normally produce. I was really eager to see if anyone had posted about this programme on here and your comment broadly anticipated the reaction I was anticipating. It was a bit like the young pianist and organ quartet who played at Winchester Jazz festival last year. I had not heard of either group but they were so much better than a lot of the more fashionable stuff. I felt the same about tonight's programme.
So far, so good. However, I would have to say that the production was a bit wa**y. It was irritating that the sets were filmed in black and white and the whole production was in total thrall of the original Jazz 625 series. The interviews did not add a great deal and it was really depressing to hear banal questions being asked of the musicians as well as the stereotypical recollections of Soho in the 1960's which has been done to death so often that it is now completely boring. It is as if nothing ever lese happened in British jazz. I get fed up with the same old stories. Surely jazz was happening elsewhere outside of Soho FFS? The historical element was in danger of becoming as much of a cliché a Gilles Peterson. (Why doesn't he ever get any older? It is really creepy.) I find the heavily edited clips of old editions of Jazz625 deeply frustrating and think that if they are going to be revisited on TV, they need to be complete editions and let's see the whole series rather than the same old stuff that makes up the usual compilations. It is somewhat depressing that whenever BBC puts jazz on TV it is often the same old trope about Jazz625 and the fact that the BBC are pleased that they recorded so much classic jazz for posterity.
Unfortunately, I have to say that jazz as a TV spectacle is not great. I don't find that the visuals improve how your absorb the music as audio only does and it lacks the excitement of a live performance. In addition, the demographic of the audience was interesting and I would have liked to have been there because I would probably have been the youngest! Someone of the people looked like they were in the audience in the original series albeit this is unlikely as the latter had probably all died from lung cancer judging by the amount of cigarette smoke. Glad I missed that element of the jazz scene and one thing about it which is a massive improvement.
Back in the early 1990s, the BBC did a similar revisit of Jazz625 which included a set from Carla Bley. At the time, there was a resurgence in jazz with a lot of varied and exciting music being produced. I don't ever recall these programmes (which were presented by Andy Sheppard) being aired since then. I think that the likes of the Cheltenham and London Jazz festivals make a number of different artists available for a similar treatment and maybe there is an opportunity to explore more fully the range of jazz on the contemporary scene as opposed to contemporary musicians paying specific homage to those artists who had performed on the original series of Jazz 625. It would be terrific if the BBC could do this and put it on at a normal time in the evening. Maybe Phoebe Waller-Bridge will produce the next series of Jazz625 as she seems to be involved with everything else. Still, I think the BBC should be praised for putting something out which doesn't have Olivia Coleman in. -
Agree about the corny presentation, elmo.Originally posted by elmo View Post
I found the programme rather bitty overall and would have preferred longer excerpts from the old Jazz 625's. Was shocked to hear that the Joe Harriott Jazz 625 tape had been wiped.
The Val Wilmer and Courtney Pine interviews were interesting but I always find Giles Peterson and Cleo Laine a pain.
I believe it was a Jez Nelson 'Something Else' production which may explain my disappointment.
JRComment
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The programme verged dangerously near being a Fast Show sketch. Shame that the producer did not allow the music to really talk for itself.Originally posted by Jazzrook View PostComment
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Originally posted by elmo View Post
A programme that promised much but delivered very little.
My guess is that this programme was someone's 'good idea' and then handed over to a production team/company who lacked the confidence to produce a serious programme on the history of jazz on BBC TV through the old Jazz625 format.
Luckily I had it on record so that when I saw the dumbed-down presentation style I decided to watch it later when I could fast-forward through that awful presenter. The black & white presentation
wasn't just a silly gimmick, it was an insult to contemporary jazz and contemporary musicians.
We could do with the surviving Jazz625 programmes being broadcast in full.Comment
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I suppose the fact that BBC TV was showing any jazz at all was the main reason I enthused about it after bumping it up on the other thread last night. Among the mini flashes of vintage there were a few seconds of the Jimmy Giuffre trio, presumably the one with Bley and Swallow. I hadn't realised there was one of the original 625 series either including or devoted to them. Now, if THAT was still available for transmission, in its entirety...Comment
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Well, I liked it
Couldn’t believe my luck. Kurt Elling on J to Z and jazz on the telly on the same weekend? You have to remember I'm a new kind of audience coming from a different background from my Esteemed Fellow Jazz Forumites. What I saw were performers enjoying themselves and a studio full of people having a great time. How often do you see that these days? Also, what I’m hearing on the R3 jazz broadcasts is great live atmospheres at local (ie UK) gigs. Surely this all adds up to good news for British jazz, doesn’t it?
And the tune ends too soon for us allComment
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IMV, yes!Originally posted by Constantbee View PostWell, I liked it Couldn’t believe my luck. Kurt Elling on J to Z and jazz on the telly on the same weekend? You have to remember I'm a new kind of audience coming from a different background from my Esteemed Fellow Jazz Forumites. What I saw were performers enjoying themselves and a studio full of people having a great time. How often do you see that these days? Also, what I’m hearing on the R3 jazz broadcasts is great live atmospheres at local (ie UK) gigs. Surely this all adds up to good news for British jazz, doesn’t it?
OGComment
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Uncharacteristically uncritical for Richard W. Perhaps he'd not yet seen the documentary, only been pre-informed about the Charlie Watts quote.Originally posted by Jazzrook View PostComment
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I didn't see the broadcast: with unusual (for me) prescience, or more likely, bitter experience, I was expecting a stinker and from most of the comments here that's what it was.
Serious point, though: does anyone know if good versions of the original Jazz 625 broadcasts are available on DVD? There is lots of stuff on Youtube but it's not all that good qualitywise, and I'd be happy to pay for better quality reissues.
One of my favourite sessions was the Tubby Hayes Big Band from 1964 (despite the rather lumbering intros by Humph, nicely handled by Tubby): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXTW...rt_radio=1#t=9. Superb, especially the version of In the Night, with a particularly good solo from Terry Shannon - who still, surprisingly given the life they all led, is alive and well (in Leicester, I think) - and some great work also by Jimmy Deuchar.
PS: I don't entirely agree with Ian Thumwood's comment that "that jazz as a TV spectacle is not great." I think, on the contrary, that it is interesting to see the musicians actually performing: you get a much stronger sense of the pure physicality of playing - as, for example, watching Jimmy Deuchar playing the mellophonium in Blues for Bloody Morag (part 5 of the broadcast.).Comment
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Thanks, JR: that DVD can still be found, but at a price (at least $34 plus postage). Presumably some other recordings are available too.Originally posted by Jazzrook View PostComment
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