The Wiley Sheppard Brand, all within Hines sight

[Serial_Apologist]

Sat 3 March
4pm Jazz Record Requests
Alyn Shipton plays requested recordings across a broad spectrum in jazz today, including innovative and influential US jazz pianist Earl Hines (1903-83),

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog

5pm Jazz Line-Up
Julian Joseph presents a concert featuring early jazz and ragtime specialists the Dime Notes: vocalist Gwyneth Herbert accompanied by pianist Ned Cartwright; and saxophonist Andy Sheppard and guitarist John Parricelli, who perform a duet. First broadcast last August as part of the Edinburgh Festival Fringe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tbzcd

Trombonist Gail Brand, a wonderful witty and forthright player, has an improv set with Steve Beresford, on electronics, as part of a fascinating Hear and Now at 10pm.

12 midnight Geoffrey Smith's Jazz
Geoffrey Smith celebrates the diverse range of swing-era vocal queens Mildred Bailey and Lee Wiley, recalling the former's bouncy beat and perfect diction, and the latter's husky sensuality.

Also a repeat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0495myd

Sun 4 March
6.45pm Sunday Feature: A Portrait of Val Wilmer

As mentioned by Bluesnik on another thread.

Mon 5 March
11pm Jazz Now
Soweto Kinch introduces a concert by Tommy Smith and the Bulgarian Radio Big Band, directed by Antoni Donchev, with music by John Coltrane, Marcus Miller and Wayne Shorter, as well as Smith himself. And Emma Smith [no relation] meets vocalist Victoria Hummler.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tcw16

Thurs 8 March
11pm Late Junction
Verity Sharp celebrates collectives past and present for International Women's day, including a collaboration and conversation between free-jazz vocalist Maggie Nicols [correct spelling please note RT] and film score composer Verity Susman.

The above follows a day of very interesting programmes featuring women composers from over the ages, many of whom are likely to be complete unknowns, and to not just us.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I'd just say that I'm no Tommy Smith fan, and almost fell very asleep at a band performance by him at the Bath Festival c.1990. BUT, I did very much enjoy that duo set by him on JLU a few weeks back. So, I will check out Jazz Now. Later.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'd just say that I'm no Tommy Smith fan, and almost fell very asleep at a band performance by him at the Bath Festival c.1990. BUT, I did very much enjoy that duo set by him on JLU a few weeks back. So, I will check out Jazz Now. Later.

I agree - he seems to have blended some Getz into the earlier Trane/Garbarek influences, and benefitted thereby; I hear this in a number of the younger players I admire on the local scene to a greater or lesser extent.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Was that Bath concert Beasts of Scotland with poems by Edwin Morgan by any chance?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Not sure Alyn, don't really remember poetry, just being very unimpressed. I think it was the year (1990?) that Robin Kenyatta played Bath. In contrast I liked him a lot, although others I spoke to didn't as he played a fairly "boppish" set. "Night has a thousand eyes" etc.

[Tenor Freak]

I agree - he seems to have blended some Getz into the earlier Trane/Garbarek influences, and benefitted thereby; I hear this in a number of the younger players I admire on the local scene to a greater or lesser extent.

Doesn't surprise me - there was a docu about him on the telly years ago where his mum recalled Tommy transcribing Getz solos the old fashioned way by slowing down the turntable.

[Serial_Apologist]

While always wanting more of them, in the light of what they've done in other contexts in the past, I could have done with more of Andy Sheppard and John Parricelli than the novelty cuties of Ms Herbert and the trad reproduction stuff at the start and close of JLU. People always answer my objections to Trad jazz by saying, "Well, you're surely not objecting to orchestras performing Mozart and Brahms, are you?" But that's scored music, one plays what's written down; jazz is an improvised music that has evolved, and in reflecting the world has become more complex; reversions to earlier stages seem tantamount to returning to a stage when one's ability to express was restricted by limited experience. I wouldn't listen to this in my local.

[Old Grumpy]

While always wanting more of them, in the light of what they've done in other contexts in the past, I could have done with more of Andy Sheppard and John Parricelli than the novelty cuties of Ms Herbert and the trad reproduction stuff at the start and close of JLU.

OG

[Ian Thumwood]

While always wanting more of them, in the light of what they've done in other contexts in the past, I could have done with more of Andy Sheppard and John Parricelli than the novelty cuties of Ms Herbert and the trad reproduction stuff at the start and close of JLU. People always answer my objections to Trad jazz by saying, "Well, you're surely not objecting to orchestras performing Mozart and Brahms, are you?" But that's scored music, one plays what's written down; jazz is an improvised music that has evolved, and in reflecting the world has become more complex; reversions to earlier stages seem tantamount to returning to a stage when one's ability to express was restricted by limited experience. I wouldn't listen to this in my local.

I only caught a bit of JLU with the singer as I was listening to the autopsy on the local radio regarding the fiasco at St Mary's yesterday afternoon. However, if there was ever a statement that needed shooting down, it must be this one!!

1. You suggest that it is ok to perform written Classical music but not jazz as it is improvised music that must reflect it's times. I believe that the "Trad band" played a number by Jelly Roll Morton. Most people would consist Morton to be jazz's first significant composer - the ground zero for jazz composition. A lot of records were actually carefully written charts and not wholly improvised. Read the Schuller book on "Early Jazz" and that will give you a glimpse of his genius and why his music should remain in the jazz repertoire.

2. The other tune performed was "San" which , I believe, was an arrangement by Bill Challis. If if is ok to perform Brahms, why not work by Challis?

3. This is the first time that I have heard ealier styles of jazz performed on JLU. It is totally under-represented on the radio.

3. As far as I am aware, Ms Herbert and her husband have been on JLU twice during the course of the current football season . I have turned off on both occasions . Granted it may be clever and quite sophisticated, but it just seems too cute and lightweight. Not really jazz. Jelly Roll Morton would not have bee impressed!

4. Why do you consider that earlier jazz musician's ability to express themselves by limited experience ? This is clearly a poorly judged statement. I think that the appeal of earlier jazz is strong because they do express their experiences better in their music. It is more personal and more individualistic. Whilst musicians today have bags more technique, it certainly doesn't make their music more compelling and is prone to lead to more monotonous music.

5. What is curious it that you love the free jazz / Improvised music scene. I can appreciate this too but it is worthwhile noting that a lot of this music has changed very little over the last 50 years. Go back 50 years before the explosion of the avant garde and Jelly Roll Morton had yet to record. Basically, a lot of the Free Jazz music is closer from a chronology to Morton's time than our own.

6. At what point do you say that it is unacceptable to perform music from jazz's past. Where would you stop? Say no to Morton, Ellington , Fletcher Henderson, Monk, Kenny Wheeler and Andrew Hill as all these musicians have passed. What about Chris McGregor ? Surely any BoB re-union is no different from Jelly Roll Morton as these charts date from over 40 years ago? How about Buck Clayton ? Do we put his music in the skip because it is no longer "reflective of a complex world?! I think not. In your argument, there is no credibility in performing this music and it is a pointless exercise revisiting a composer whose music crystalized big band swing / mainstream jazz despite the fact that it has musical merits and is great fun to listen to. At what point did jelly Roll Mroton and Buck Clayton reach their sell by date ? Hoe much shelf life has Kenny Wheeler's music got. Should we cease trying to explore unperformed works by Herbie Nichols just because they were written in the 1950's or does the fact that they are written make this ok ?


I think the definition of jazz is very broad but the idea that improvised is evolving and reflecting a more complex world is a generalisation. Granted that there will be things like the Herbert concert that make me cringe and have limit connection to the jazz I listen to, I think jazz has always been varied even in the early 20's when there was an ideological battleground between orchestrated and improvised approach to jazz. Later the likes of Eddie Condon would record tracks like "Carnegie Drag" in response to Goodman's concert in 1938. There have always been multiple strands running in the music and not everybody has been cutting edge. Even cutting edge musicians have recorded mainstream stuff. Most fans these days can see the connection between the different styles of jazz and can listen to all.

It is always worthwhile reading your posts , SA as you are by far the most eloquent poster on here but I think in this instance you have over generalised. Earlier styles of jazz get a raw deal these days. Better off expressing your annoyance at the stuff on JLU that purports to be jazz but which isn't.

Off to play squash.......

[Quarky]

5. What is curious it that you love the free jazz / Improvised music scene. I can appreciate this too but it is worthwhile noting that a lot of this music has changed very little over the last 50 years. Go back 50 years before the explosion of the avant garde and Jelly Roll Morton had yet to record. Basically, a lot of the Free Jazz music is closer from a chronology to Morton's time than our own.
..

My angle on this (worth at least twopence):

Current Free Jazz / Improv Jazz faces huge competition from the musical world in general, whether it be experimental music of the type that Verity Sharp on LJ might broadcast, or the highly intellectual stuff that can be heard on Hear and Now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tmhvc

In a sense Free Jazz is at a disadvantage, since it does need to remain faithful to its roots, whereas no such constraint applies to Improv. Don't often hear Free Jazz of the quality of Wayne Shorter - Sclavis on Jazz Now was an exception.

As regards Trad, I believe JRR attempts to redress this - in fact I vaguely recollect Trad being played on Jazz Now.

I liked Gwynneth Herbert

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"There were serious attempts, too, to reanimate the truly dead: Luigi Galvani found that frog’s legs twitched as if alive when struck by a spark of electricity. In her 1831 Preface to the novel, Mary Shelley mentions ‘galvanism’ as an influence upon her story. Galvani’s nephew, Giovanni Aldini, progressed from frogs legs to attempting the reanimation of hanged criminals..." - "Science and Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein".

Jazz is...

BN.

[Old Grumpy]

"There were serious attempts, too, to reanimate the truly dead: Luigi Galvani found that frog’s legs twitched as if alive when struck by a spark of electricity. In her 1831 Preface to the novel, Mary Shelley mentions ‘galvanism’ as an influence upon her story. Galvani’s nephew, Giovanni Aldini, progressed from frogs legs to attempting the reanimation of hanged criminals..." - "Science and Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein".

Jazz is...

BN.

dead?
Long live Jazz!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

dead?
Long live Jazz!

"The People's Music"

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Well, listening to the Dime Notes I am a bit aghast at the negative reception. I thought that they were pretty good , especially on the Jelly Roll and James P Johnson numbers. The pianist and clarinetist really impressed. For me, the music caught the spirit of the era yet there was still sufficient within the music to male it sound relevant. The music was really enjoyable. They were good,


The Herbert set is strange. I don't think that she is a jazz singer by any imagination. She is like a pretty much more switched on version of Regina Spektor. Not sure what to make of the Star Wars effects in the opening number. This is Ok pop music and I did not mind it but what it is doing on a jazz programme is not clear.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, listening to the Dime Notes I am a bit aghast at the negative reception. I thought that they were pretty good , especially on the Jelly Roll and James P Johnson numbers. The pianist and clarinetist really impressed. For me, the music caught the spirit of the era yet there was still sufficient within the music to male it sound relevant. The music was really enjoyable. They were good,


The Herbert set is strange. I don't think that she is a jazz singer by any imagination. She is like a pretty much more switched on version of Regina Spektor. Not sure what to make of the Star Wars effects in the opening number. This is Ok pop music and I did not mind it but what it is doing on a jazz programme is not clear.

She either did or does present the Big Band programme on R2; to judge by the truth that I never recognise any of the names advertised as coming up on either means that I am unfairly missing out on an area I should be paying attention to, or that it, too, probably isn't jazz, by your and my widest definitions.

Thanks for your lengthy critical reply to my earlier post, BTW Ian. I'll respond to it now.