Paul Jones Blues Show to be axed.

[Ian Thumwood]

I have no doubt that Sonny Boy Williamson was completely sincere in the gratitude he expressed towards the Yardbirds as his acting backing band when he came over here in '63 (I think) - and that this reflected the music's status in the States outwith the ghettos. Something can be said for the oft made assertion that Clapton & co introduced America to its own greatest music. At a time when racism was the norm it shouldn't (imv) be dismissed that young working class Brits in the late 50s/early 60s such as Eric Burden found identity with American blacks through their music, and also through acquainting them ashore in pubs in ports like Liverpool and Newcastle where recordings otherwise unavailable here were handed over. Notwithstanding friendly differences I had with a Jamaican friend over qualities specific to black singers rarely found in white singers, ("You're not telling me you could tell Moira Stuart was black just by hearing her speak?" he would tell me), very few of our lads and lasses were able to reproduce those timbral qualities. Julie Driscoll (as she was) was the only one I can think of whose recorded voice bamboozled any black person I've known. This inability to reproduce the "black vocal sound" - remembering that this was a time when especially non-black non-American would be's thought of themselves as at best imitators of something they knew had been purloined, going all the way back to the black and white Swing bands in the States - gave impetus to the more improvisational approach to blues that led to Fusion by way of bands like Cream and Brian Auger's Trinity, not forgetting Hendrix, of course!

This is broadly my understanding. I think that most "black" artists who emerged in the 20's-40's would have been astonished that their music had such an impact upon a younger generation, white audience. You can easily appreciate the appeal - especially if you compare these kinds of artists with the popular music produced in the UK during the same period!

It is interesting noting the difference between a jazz and a blues audience even if the generational difference is not so great. The Blues still has a strong "blue collar" following whereas I think jazz has just become increasingly elitist as the music has evolved in complexity. When I have gone to Blues gigs, a lot of people do come from a Rock background and criticism of musicians such as Clapton and Hendrix would not be taken seriously if anyone mooted the position taken by Bluesnik . Sometimes Blues gigs can be a bit pedestrian and I think you could argue that the only other "Jazz-related" oeuvre that probably is susceptible to greater cliché is Gospel music which again now takes on influences from Rock and Soul.

I would not tend to look to treat Clapton any different from Buddy Guy. If BBC Radio 2 includes the T/T band in it's line up, I would not object. I think the economic circumstances of a band like that are unimaginable to the early generation of players yet Blues seems to be one of the few types of music where economic depravation seems to suggest greater authenticity. The circumstances in 2018 are different from 1929 and the reason why the Blues are still relevant is because this is a music which can reflect the change in experience.

[cloughie]

Wondered how much Blues you have listened to that has been recorded of late. The oeuvre is not dead and was never consistent anyway. Even if it's "heyday", the music ranged from Ma Rainey through to Bessie Smith who was very much a popular artist. This , in turn, influenced the rural communities who produced probably the music's mot potent recordings at a time of both ecological and economic distress. Of course the music sounds authentic and these were folk musicians singing about their own experiences. However, by the mid 30's musicians like Leroy Carr were producing a more popular and "urban" sound to the Blues which ultimately led to the R n' B of the late 40's which then gave birth to the Chicago electric blues. The music has always changed and I think it is a case of embracing this. Artists like Beth Hart may have influences in Rock and beyond jazz in to other musics yet her voice is unique and her work often very personal given her circumstances, etc.

To say that the "rot" set in with Clapton is absurd. A purist might argue that it set in with Leroy Carr when it evolved a slicker personality. Are you suggesting that Clapton can't play?

Clapton can certainly play the blues - I get more concerned about him trying to sing Standards!
Slightly off topic the Stones return to the blues with the late '16 album when you compare it with what they did in the 60s before Brian Jones self destructed!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

If anyone thinks Clapton was in the forefront of anti racism, you haven't been playing much fkg attention! The irony. Read that outburst in all its rancid "beauty" again. It's now parody music, it was breathing it's last in the 70s as it's surviving practitioners went through the motions, good luck to.them. Watch the video of the Stones arriving at Muddy Waters Chicago club to "surprise" him and more centrally, "promote" themselves. Muddy like Budda on his stool, smiling, counting his royalties as the circus came to town. A fucking joke.

As for "vocal timbres", Jo Anne Kelly did a "good" Memphis Minnie? But so what, there WAS a Memphis Minnie and it wasn't Jo Anne. Totally pointless. And that is THE point.

It's dead, so respect the grave, leave flowers, just don't dress up and dance on it like simpletons. It's not the Hughie Green show. Or maybe it is. "And here's another young man from Enfield who thinks he's Sleepy John Estes and lives in a rat infested shack outside Memphis and sings the blues....well, we wanna hear you...".

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

[Ian Thumwood]

[cloughie]

If anyone thinks Clapton was in the forefront of anti racism, you haven't been playing much fkg attention! The irony. Read that outburst in all its rancid "beauty" again. It's now parody music, it was breathing it's last in the 70s as it's surviving practitioners went through the motions, good luck to.them. Watch the video of the Stones arriving at Muddy Waters Chicago club to "surprise" him and more centrally, "promote" themselves. Muddy like Budda on his stool, smiling, counting his royalties as the circus came to town. A fucking joke.

As for "vocal timbres", Jo Anne Kelly did a "good" Memphis Minnie? But so what, there WAS a Memphis Minnie and it wasn't Jo Anne. Totally pointless. And that is THE point.

It's dead, so respect the grave, leave flowers, just don't dress up and dance on it like simpletons. It's not the Hughie Green show. Or maybe it is. "And here's another young man from Enfield who thinks he's Sleepy John Estes and lives in a rat infested shack outside Memphis and sings the blues....well, we wanna hear you...".

BN.

That seems to be a very angry posting BN. I think there are many who will disagree with you.

[Ian Thumwood]

[Ian Thumwood]

[Ian Thumwood]

[Ian Thumwood]

That seems to be a very angry posting BN. I think there are many who will disagree with you.

It is a post by someone who hasn't listened to the Blues since about 1968.

[Ian Thumwood]

[Serial_Apologist]

That seems to be a very angry posting BN. I think there are many who will disagree with you.

I'm guessing Bluesie's referring to the infamous speech Clapton gave in 1977 (?) in which he spewed out anti-immigration and support for Enoch Powell.

[Ian Thumwood]

[Ian Thumwood]

I think that this version by Joe Bonamassa and Beth Hart destroys the original. This is easily the definitive version of this tune. (But Memphis Minnie would have done a better version if she had recorded it. )

[Ian Thumwood]

This is not Blues but pretty special though....