Bach down the Ole Cole Hole for a Barnestormer

**Serial_Apologist** · 23-12-17, 17:19

I really don't care much for jazzin' up the classics, or the bar rocks in Mr Bach's case in point as he goes to town for that matter, and there are very few exceptions in that dislike, so I'm treating today's JRR as an endurance test.

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 23-12-17, 18:31

Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

I really don't care much for jazzin' up the classics, or the bar rocks in Mr Bach's case in point as he goes to town for that matter, and there are very few exceptions in that dislike, so I'm treating today's JRR as an endurance test.

Bach Humbug!

Or, Bach Humperdinck. The latter lived in Boppard. The birthplace of Hard Bop? Which must have been near to Mobleyberg. Well, it's Christmas cracker time...

Surprised no one requested the MJQ or John Lewis who would have lifted up things no end. Thought generally it was awful.

So, on with the seasonal bacchanalia...

BN.

**Ian Thumwood** · 23-12-17, 19:50

I am surprised that no one has posted about the Jacob Collier set on JLU. He was at Vienne last year although I am not sure who he opened for. There was a lot of publicity at the time and, as a live act, it is fascinating watching him perform. I agree with Le Gendre's comment about Collier being the ultimate one man band yet, when you listen to the music as opposed to watching it, the result is nowhere as near as interesting. In fact, for all the technology he had available, some of the singing didn't seem too in tune. After hearing him in concert the whole experience becomes increasingly dull because the whole experience is really more about the technology he has available. With a recording studio at his disposal, the whole effect is diminished as it is no longer a magician's plate spinning exercise and even as a "live" artist, there is still an element of his work being a kind of "high class karaoke. " He was more impressive on the earlier record with the acoustic quintet even though I felt that is was pleasant as opposed to compelling. Ultimately, the music he produces is heavily indebted to "Take Six" and the results seems to pitch the music somewhere between "Earth, Wind and Fire" and "Weather Report" without being as good as either of them. All in all, it is a conceit that I feel is perhaps more about a talented , technical player playing around with technology as opposed to making great music. I don't know where an artist like Collier goes from here because any career development is just as likely to be down to improvements in computer software and keyboard technology.

On the subject of software, I wonder is anyone else had caught the article in the Daily Telegraph during the week about BBC radio experimenting with Artificial Intelligence for compiling programmes ? I did not really understand how this was going to be implemented but the article stated that a number of radio programmes had been produced (albeit not for broadcast) which experimented with the use of AI. I believe it was to do with record selection or audience interaction. One of the programmes was apparently "Jazz Line Up."

**Serial_Apologist** · 23-12-17, 20:06

Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

Ultimately, the music he produces is heavily indebted to "Take Six" and the results seems to pitch the music somewhere between "Earth, Wind and Fire" and "Weather Report" without being as good as either of them.

I thought more of a cross between The Kings Singers and Django Bates's Delightful Precipice, but generally unoriginal as a pastiche of American funk and without Django's personality and quirky slightly self-effacing put-on.

**Quarky** · 23-12-17, 23:50

Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

I really don't care much for jazzin' up the classics, or the bar rocks in Mr Bach's case in point as he goes to town for that matter, and there are very few exceptions in that dislike, so I'm treating today's JRR as an endurance test.

Agreed to a large extent. However I note there were some eminent Requesters, and I particularly like the Swingle Singers track played at the end of the Programme, and requested by some Jazz singers. Only a minute or so long, but if Alyn had played the entire Swingle Singers album, I would have been happy.

The point in my view is that the Swingle Singers make an arrangement of a Bach piece, and preserve the content and intent of the original. In fact they convert the piece to a Bach Cantata. They certainly knocked me out when I first heard them almost 60 years ago. [ The Duke made a success of the Nutcracker, which was also an arrangement].

As regards using a Bach composition as a springboard for improvisation, I have to bow to the views of the Jazz elite, but that strikes me as very hard work. The Tim Garland piece seemed very worthwhile, but I would have to listen to it a few times to get to really appreciate it.

I agree with Ian on James Colllier. It seemed a recording from a local village hall, and I had to switch off.

Regretfully, I have to put Katie Derham ahead on points this week.

**Quarky** · 23-12-17, 23:50

Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

I really don't care much for jazzin' up the classics, or the bar rocks in Mr Bach's case in point as he goes to town for that matter, and there are very few exceptions in that dislike, so I'm treating today's JRR as an endurance test.

Agreed to a large extent. However I note there were some eminent Requesters, and I particularly like the Swingle Singers track played at the end of the Programme, and requested by some Jazz singers. Only a minute or so long, but if Alyn had played the entire Swingle Singers album, I would have been happy.

The point in my view is that the Swingle Singers made an arrangement of a Bach piece, and preserve the content and intent of the original. In fact they convert the piece to a Bach Cantata. They certainly knocked me out when I first heard them almost 60 years ago. [ The Duke made a success of the Nutcracker, which was also an arrangement].

As regards using a Bach composition as a springboard for improvisation, I have to bow to the views of the Jazz elite, but that strikes me as very hard work. The Tim Garland piece seemed very worthwhile, but I would have to listen to it a few times to get to really appreciate it.

I agree with Ian on James Colllier. It seemed a recording from a local village hall, and I had to switch off.

Regretfully, I have to put Katie Derham ahead on points this week.

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 24-12-17, 12:19

Radio 3, Sarah Walker, just played this...

John Lewis
Fugue no.8 02:00
THE BRIDGE GAME VOL. 2 BASED ON THE WELL TEMPERED CLAVIER BOOK 1. PHILIPS. 10.

Which was a Bach mo' better.

BN

**Ian Thumwood** · 24-12-17, 13:10

Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

I really don't care much for jazzin' up the classics, or the bar rocks in Mr Bach's case in point as he goes to town for that matter, and there are very few exceptions in that dislike, so I'm treating today's JRR as an endurance test.

Well, Uri Caine's de-construction of Mahler is brilliant and the Westbrook-Rossini disc still delights after thirty years. I understand where you are coming from but I am not in total agreement. At least with Bach he is effectively doing musical problem solving and the whole mathematical process in his fugues, for example, lends itself to jazz. I don't see such a big divide as you might get in say a jazz musician tackling Mozart.

**Serial_Apologist** · 24-12-17, 15:51

Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

Well, Uri Caine's de-construction of Mahler is brilliant and the Westbrook-Rossini disc still delights after thirty years. I understand where you are coming from but I am not in total agreement. At least with Bach he is effectively doing musical problem solving and the whole mathematical process in his fugues, for example, lends itself to jazz. I don't see such a big divide as you might get in say a jazz musician tackling Mozart.

Counterpoint isn't the problem. Jazz syncopated ersatz Bach over a swing rhythm doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid.

**Joseph K** · 24-12-17, 16:16

Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

Counterpoint isn't the problem. Jazz syncopated ersatz Bach over a swing rhythm doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid.

Agreed. Years ago I worked in a music shop in Jena and the owner would play Jacques Louisser's Bach over and over and over.

Bach down the Ole Cole Hole for a Barnestormer

Bach down the Ole Cole Hole for a Barnestormer

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