Belated Very Happy 80th birthday wishes to Mike Gibbs.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Hang on a minute there Ian... There are some great festivals around, and we're trying on Jazz Now to give you the best whether it's Tampere or Scarborough. I can't speak for the editorial policy of Jazz Line Up but I can say that at Jazz Now we've covered everything from conventional big names (we have Aziza coming up in a week or two) to hip hop (Juice Aleem and Hiatus Koyote) to the up and coming or left field (Schnellertollermeier from Cheltenham coming up in a week or two). And as a player I have performed on festivals that definitely don't rely on promoting this year's fashion, but believe in promoting good jazz of all stripes - including Swanage (last year), Gateshead, and the new event at Ushaw near Durham. They're a great place to hear new bands, catch up with other musicians, and get a cross section of what's going on. We'll have a good pick of London Jazz festival gigs on Jazz Now as well, and not a pop act among them...

[Serial_Apologist]

I tend to agree with what you say here, Alyn. The main objections coming here are in terms of where JLU seems to be going. Earlier on today I was listening to Kevin interviewing musicians and bands featured 10 years ago on the programme, and seeming to show far greater critical intelligence in the process, whiloe eliciting equally engaging and curiosity-fulfilling replies from the likes of Tom Arthurs and Gwilym Simcock about creative changes in direction and forthcoming tours and recordings, as opposed to the blithe approvals given really mediocre recordings today. There was more effort given to bands from the Fire and Loop collectives - one being a notable live broadcast of multi-saxophonist James Allsopp's group Fraud and Nathaniel Facey's Empirical, whose complex music really stands up to repeated scrutiny today as compared with Mark Holub's then much-touted, self-consciously adolescent Led Bib. For me the main problem with Jazz Now has as always with BBC jazz broadcasting to be the late scheduling, which means I'm usually nodding off listening to this programme from the comforts of my bed, and then never managing to find subsequent time to catch up on the iPlayer. But today's JLU was frankly embarrassing, and if the slide is not arrested I for one will give it until the end of the year, and then not tune in any more.

[Ian Thumwood]

S.A

The comment about the earlier edition of JLU is interesting but then again, I think that the jazz scene was much better ten years ago albeit not as good as say between 1983-2002 which was the point from which I started and the point by which work commitments meant that I had to cut down on attending gigs whereas as I had previously been to listen to as many live gigs as possible. However, I would add that from 2001 I have been going to Vienne. Cheltenham was always difficult for me because I am usually very busy in May and it was rare for me to get much free time during this month because I was involved in cost reports and marking candidate's critical analyses. It was probably the most hectic month in the year although the football fixture list also makes a massive input to what I can go to now have season tickets to watch two teams.

Jazz Now is the most programme I will listen to on the I-player albeit it is the usually the groups that appeal to me that I will select. I do think that JLU does offer a good selection of European concerts too for what it is worth and this is probably more indicative of the kind of jazz I have increasingly encountered when I have gone to France. I agree to some extent that the more local UK jazz scene has festivals which ware more "mainstream" in their selection but I don't necessarily agree this is the case with the larger festivals where, increasingly, there is no dialogue with the audience / customers. Marciac is probably the most "purist" of the larger festivals in Europe , largely because it is curated by Wynton Marsalis I believe. However, it is in the middle of nowhere and accommodation means commuting from neighbouring villages.

Where I agree with Alyn is that UK festivals are really good at supporting British artist and of various different styles. I don't think that this has ever changed and I would concur that this is my impression too from those UK festivals I have attended. However, f you want to hear the newer players emerging from the States, I think that this is becoming increasingly difficult. Promoters at the venues I go to do not want to book artists likes Josh Berman, Steve Lehman, Keefe Jackson, Alan Ferber, Jason Adaseiwizc , Mary Halvorson, David Binney, Tomeka Reid. etc who are the kind of musicians I like to listen to these days. Venues seemed much better at promoting newer players in the 1980s and these musicians are the ones who seem to attract audiences these days albeit the experience of seeing Mike Gibbs on Friday at a half-empty venue is perhaps indicative of the lack of interest in an older generation of musicians. (Also witnessed by a 2/3rds empty concert given by Ornette Coleman at Vienne which was the most appealing concert that year for me.) The big problem for me is that when I started listening to jazz in the 1980s it was possible to hear musicians from the Swing Era, bop and contemporary jazz. There were also a few players who were around in the 1920's who were still playing. Wind forward to 2017 and the "veteran" players these days rarely have a history that goes back to the 1960s with the likes of players such as Ahmed Jamal being today's answer to someone like Jabbo Smith in the he comes from a period of over sixty years ago. In my opinion, I don't think jazz is as good now as it was back in the 1980s even if their was still dross being produced back then too. Because festivals stopped really "cultivating" big name players in the 2000s , I am fearful of what lies ahead in the future. You can see a time when the "legends" appearing at festivals will be the likes of Esperanza Spalding or Gregory Porter (both of whom I like, by the way) but there being a paucity of other players because of the failure to nurture an audience for artists who will have a long career trajectory since the 2000's. You just envisage future jazz festivals neglecting post-bop / free jazz in future with perhaps a return to the Loft scene in the 70's. Talking with a friend on Friday night, the subject of Arthur Blythe came up and the fact that there are so few players around these days of a similar ilk who are "outside" but have character in their playing that has a wider appeal without compromising their music. ( Albeit Blythe's later stuff was pretty compromised by the time CBS had finished with him!)

There was an interesting programme on Radio Four two weeks ago that looked at criticism in the art world and the most salient comments came from Soweto Kinch who talked about jazz appreciation and the need to understand the musical heritage to make sense of the music. His interview was extremely interesting and I was nodding in agreement. There was also mention of some art venues issuing questionnaires for the audience to register their opinions on a range of often banal questions. This affords an interesting dilemma because it would not only be interesting to see who the jazz audience is these days but exactly what it is they look for in jazz. I would expect that for the majority of younger people it is going to have little to do with the kind of emotions the young Bluesnik experienced when picking up his Frank Strozier records from Woolworths.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

S.A

The comment about the earlier edition of JLU is interesting but then again, I think that the jazz scene was much better ten years ago albeit not as good as say between 1983-2002 which was the point from which I started and the point by which work commitments meant that I had to cut down on attending gigs whereas as I had previously been to listen to as many live gigs as possible. However, I would add that from 2001 I have been going to Vienne. Cheltenham was always difficult for me because I am usually very busy in May and it was rare for me to get much free time during this month because I was involved in cost reports and marking candidate's critical analyses. It was probably the most hectic month in the year although the football fixture list also makes a massive input to what I can go to now have season tickets to watch two teams.

Jazz Now is the most programme I will listen to on the I-player albeit it is the usually the groups that appeal to me that I will select. I do think that JLU does offer a good selection of European concerts too for what it is worth and this is probably more indicative of the kind of jazz I have increasingly encountered when I have gone to France. I agree to some extent that the more local UK jazz scene has festivals which ware more "mainstream" in their selection but I don't necessarily agree this is the case with the larger festivals where, increasingly, there is no dialogue with the audience / customers. Marciac is probably the most "purist" of the larger festivals in Europe , largely because it is curated by Wynton Marsalis I believe. However, it is in the middle of nowhere and accommodation means commuting from neighbouring villages.

Where I agree with Alyn is that UK festivals are really good at supporting British artist and of various different styles. I don't think that this has ever changed and I would concur that this is my impression too from those UK festivals I have attended. However, f you want to hear the newer players emerging from the States, I think that this is becoming increasingly difficult. Promoters at the venues I go to do not want to book artists likes Josh Berman, Steve Lehman, Keefe Jackson, Alan Ferber, Jason Adaseiwizc , Mary Halvorson, David Binney, Tomeka Reid. etc who are the kind of musicians I like to listen to these days. Venues seemed much better at promoting newer players in the 1980s and these musicians are the ones who seem to attract audiences these days albeit the experience of seeing Mike Gibbs on Friday at a half-empty venue is perhaps indicative of the lack of interest in an older generation of musicians. (Also witnessed by a 2/3rds empty concert given by Ornette Coleman at Vienne which was the most appealing concert that year for me.) The big problem for me is that when I started listening to jazz in the 1980s it was possible to hear musicians from the Swing Era, bop and contemporary jazz. There were also a few players who were around in the 1920's who were still playing. Wind forward to 2017 and the "veteran" players these days rarely have a history that goes back to the 1960s with the likes of players such as Ahmed Jamal being today's answer to someone like Jabbo Smith in the he comes from a period of over sixty years ago. In my opinion, I don't think jazz is as good now as it was back in the 1980s even if their was still dross being produced back then too. Because festivals stopped really "cultivating" big name players in the 2000s , I am fearful of what lies ahead in the future. You can see a time when the "legends" appearing at festivals will be the likes of Esperanza Spalding or Gregory Porter (both of whom I like, by the way) but there being a paucity of other players because of the failure to nurture an audience for artists who will have a long career trajectory since the 2000's. You just envisage future jazz festivals neglecting post-bop / free jazz in future with perhaps a return to the Loft scene in the 70's. Talking with a friend on Friday night, the subject of Arthur Blythe came up and the fact that there are so few players around these days of a similar ilk who are "outside" but have character in their playing that has a wider appeal without compromising their music. ( Albeit Blythe's later stuff was pretty compromised by the time CBS had finished with him!)

There was an interesting programme on Radio Four two weeks ago that looked at criticism in the art world and the most salient comments came from Soweto Kinch who talked about jazz appreciation and the need to understand the musical heritage to make sense of the music. His interview was extremely interesting and I was nodding in agreement. There was also mention of some art venues issuing questionnaires for the audience to register their opinions on a range of often banal questions. This affords an interesting dilemma because it would not only be interesting to see who the jazz audience is these days but exactly what it is they look for in jazz. I would expect that for the majority of younger people it is going to have little to do with the kind of emotions the young Bluesnik experienced when picking up his Frank Strozier records from Woolworths.

WH Smiths, Ian. Woolworths only had an occasional Dicky Pride Swings LP. Scratched by angry razor boys.

As for audiences for jazz, there were a few public surveys carried out in the States a couple of years back. They are on line. Pretty depressing as I recall. Aging rapidly, passive and armchair bound, youth conspicuous by its absence. Very like the splendid Tory "party" as it slowly sinks in Brexit Bay.

[burning dog]

I can remember when you could buy proper jazz records in Boots - mid 70s, they stocked a few Impulse releases. I bought a Dewey Redman there, and A Love Supreme was on the shelf at the time. Woolworths just had the top 40 singles and SingalongaMax

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I bought a King Pleasure LP in Boots, Newport, Wales in the 1970s (HiFi Jazz, a US label), great little record with Harold Land and Teddy Edwards. God knows how that got there. Maybe Georgie Fame was playing Cardiff Bay and needed beer money...or not.

BN.