Steve Lacy

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4032

    Steve Lacy

    Over the last few months I have been increasingly listening to musicians like Duke Ellington, Andrew Hill, Sun Ra and Arthur Blythe and thinking just how poor the world of jazz is these days because so few jazz musicians seem to have such an idiosyncratic approach to their music. I was quite intrigued by the Avid 4-Cd collection of Steve Lacy's music which I was aware of but not familiar with. Steve Lacy was very much part of the contemporary scene when I was getting in to jazz that I had ignored his earlier work apart from his cameo performances with Gil Evans. It seemed far more interesting to listen to his current stuff than records made when he was still in his 20's.

    The collection of Avid is something of a revelation albeit the tendency to bill their re-issues as "four classic albums" usually refers to the vintage and not the performances in so many instances. This is not the case with the Steve Lacy disc. The initial record entitled "Soprano saxophone" includes Wynton Kelly in the line up and is a pretty good modern jazz recording of the era. It is odd because the record so squarely pitched in the mainstream and Kelly's piano almost seems out of context when coupled with a more adventurous player like Lacy - Kelly is so often the best thing about so many jazz recordings from this era. The second disc pushes thing further outside with an exploration of Thelonious Monk's music with the more suitable Mal Waldron at the piano. By the time the music on the second disc was produced, four years had passed on from the debut and Lacy is at risk of sounding well in advance of his contemporaries. "The straight horn of Steve Lacy" was rightly singled out by Jazzrook on the Charles Davis thread although I think that Davis is still rooted in bop in this record whilst the leader is off on another planet. The final record includes a group with Don Cherry who is a musician I find to be erratic on record yet having the potential to be superb. His playing on the album "Evidence" is incredible and , although I am only a few tracks in, I think this is the pick of the bunch,

    A few observations seem prescient. Whilst I knew that he had initially been associated with "Dixieland" jazz, the reality is that he had been playing with high calibre musicians such as Max Kaminsky, Walter Page, etc. He was therefore already working with musicians of a high calibre before being mentored by Cecil Taylor. What has never been widely known was the he was a pupil of Lee Konitz and when you listen to Lacy's ability to unfurl streams of improvised lines as you can hear on CD2, this makes total sense. The third think is that the only giveaway that CD 2 was recorded in the 1960s is the fact that the records aren't stereo. Lacy's musical vision remained intact until his passing and it is fascinating to hear it present around 1960 / 1 as opposed to appearing after the innovations in the 2nd half of the 60's. Setting aside the debut album, the other three records sound "contemporary" or even visionary.

    The other immediate observation is Lacy's affinity for Monk. Bruce often cites this and is a fan of his Soul Note work which includes solo versions of Monk's tunes. For me, Lacy was the best ever interpreter of Monk's music but this collection also shows an affinity for Duke Ellington's work who Lacy also admired. The leads onto the comment in the liner notes about Lacy suggesting that even in 1960 there was enough "jazz repertoire" to obviate the need to plough through Broadway repertoire. Later on, he was even more critical of musicians performing pop songs.

    It is shocking that the musical approach of players like Lacy seems to have gone from "the cutting edge" through to total obscurity. If you consider what is considered at the forefront of jazz today, I am struggling to think of anyone who shares Lacy's strident vision of uncompromising jazz. The interview with the percussionist of JLU six months ago comes immediately to mind where he was adamant that people working in jazz needed to look beyond the confines of the music for inspiration. I am more of Lacy's view these days in that the music has plenty of potential and musicians should look within the heritage. The notion of "safe-guarding" jazz is usually seen as the fiefdom of players like Wynton Marsalis yet someone like Steve Lacy was no less hostile towards external influences and passionate about the music losing it's integrity. In these days of musicians with amazing techniques spewing out of colleges, the Avid collection is ample reminder that the potency of jazz must never be neglected. It is a timely reminder of what a great improviser Steve Lacy was ( up there with Sonny Rollins, Konitz, Parker, Coltrane etc) and also just how much he understood the worth of jazz to be. I would seriously recommend this collection for anyone unfamiliar with these records.
  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4221

    #2
    I really love all those early records, and the Savoy quartet date with Cherry REALLY is a classic. Don't forget he also worked and travelled with Monk, as a quintet with Charlie Rouse. I think he said that he didn't realise just how much he'd learnt from that experience (and from both) until much later. There are some bootlegs around but they don't do him justice.

    BN.

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    • Ian Thumwood
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4032

      #3
      the curious thing about Lacy is that he totally by-passed the influence of Ornette, Coltrane and the free scene of the late 60's. If you listen to an album from 1989 such as "The Door" the same approach is still apparent and he remains someone who not only sounded unlike any other saxophonist, but seemed to have his own concept of jazz. The mechanics of Lacy's solos owe more to players like Konitz and Rollins with phrases being conjured up and continually reimagined. The influence of Monk has always been obvious and I suppose must have informed Steve Lacy when he came to pen his own material - something totally absent from either 4 records on the Avid collection. As an improviser, I feel that the whole concept that players like Lacy, Rollins and Konitz had seems less significant these days even if it was still wholly relevant back in the 1980s when I first got in to jazz.

      I agree about the Don Cherry record but, to be honest, the other records are seriously worth listening to - even the sophomore record with Wynton Kelly where Steve Lacy seems completely ahead of the curve.

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      • Tenor Freak
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 1033

        #4
        I am probably one of the few owners of this LP in the UK - "Only Monk" on the Soul Note label (SN 1160) (c) 1987. Purchased from Dobell's in 1987 for the princely sum of £6.80 (according to the price label still attached).

        Here's a fine example - Charles Fox played this on Jazz Today:



        Hear the purity of the lines Steve plays on this - a rarity in contemporary jazz I think.

        Max Harrison (RIP) wrote teh liner notes and mentions Steve's affinity with writers such as Robert Musil, and artists such as Paul Klee, "whose highly developed sense of the line might be expected to interest one who records unaccompanied soprano saxophone solos" (it says here*).

        I think that is the reason why Steve Lacy is so compelling to me - he brings a purity of line through complex changes. I wish I had seen him play live but from memory he didn't play too many gigs in London in the 1980s. I only remember the one that The Wire Magazine promoted in 1987. I'm sure there were many more (including Company Weeks - remember them?) but they passed under my radar.
        Last edited by Tenor Freak; 27-08-17, 00:49. Reason: yarbles
        all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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        • Tenor Freak
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 1033

          #5
          On a related matter, I'm not sure I've ever seen Monk on teh colour TV. So enjoy this one.
          Teh BBC rubbed over their colour footage with that year's Lord Mayor's Parade.#

          all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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          • Serial_Apologist
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 36822

            #6
            Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
            I am probably one of the few owners of this LP in the UK - "Only Monk" on the Soul Note label (SN 1160) (c) 1987. Purchased from Dobell's in 1987 for the princely sum of £6.80 (according to the price label still attached).

            Here's a fine example - Charles Fox played this on Jazz Today:



            Hear the purity of the lines Steve plays on this - a rarity in contemporary jazz I think.

            Max Harrison (RIP) wrote teh liner notes and mentions Steve's affinity with writers such as Robert Musil, and artists such as Paul Klee, "whose highly developed sense of the line might be expected to interest one who records unaccompanied soprano saxophone solos" (it says here*).

            I think that is the reason why Steve Lacy is so compelling to me - he brings a purity of line through complex changes. I wish I had seen him play live but from memory he didn't play too many gigs in London in the 1980s. I only remember the one that The Wire Magazine promoted in 1987. I'm sure there were many more (including Company Weeks - remember them?) but they passed under my radar.
            Lacy played one of the Outside In festivals in Crawley, early 1990s: solo on the big stage in the theatre. I seem to remember that was all Monk numbers - I've kept the programmes & could check out which one if anyone's interested. As a fellow soprano solo specialist Lol Coxhill greatly admired Lacy, with whom he shared at least one of the early Company weekends organised by Derek Bailey alongside Braxton. I asked him if he'd ever been compared or would compare himself to Lacy, and Coxhill said that in his own tone he did not go for the same purity of sound; and of course, much as they both went for a flowing across-the-beat conception, Lol's improvising was characteristically much more slithery.

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            • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 4221

              #7
              There are some rare tracks recently up on Utube of the Dick Sutton Sextet ("Progressive Dixieland"), recorded in 1954 and featuring a twenty year old Steve Lacy on soprano. He sounds together and pretty recognisable. I didn't know he recorded that early. The pick is "It could happen to you", more West Coast than "Prog Dixie"* (sic).

              *Emerson, Lake and Kenny Ball.

              BN.

              Comment

              • Serial_Apologist
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 36822

                #8
                Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                There are some rare tracks recently up on Utube of the Dick Sutton Sextet ("Progressive Dixieland"), recorded in 1954 and featuring a twenty year old Steve Lacy on soprano. He sounds together and pretty recognisable. I didn't know he recorded that early. The pick is "It could happen to you", more West Coast than "Prog Dixie"* (sic).

                *Emerson, Lake and Kenny Ball.

                BN.
                Emerson, Lake & Palmed Off!

                Comment

                • Ian Thumwood
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 4032

                  #9
                  It would be more interesting to hear Lacy with some of the more celebrated musicians that were listed in the liner notes of "Soprano Saxophone." The musicians were not "Dixieland" and I hate to read about musicians who pre-dated Modern Jazz denigrated as such. The players were all musicians who were prominent in the 1930's albeit usually in small groups but none were playing faux New Orleans music. I don't think that Lacy really "switched" after encountering Cecil Taylor but had his horizons broadened. It is fair to say that he was extremely informed about earlier styles of jazz when he was at college and had previously won a competition to find "the new Bechet." Had he pursued this path, I think the results would have been interesting. As well as being an advocate for Monk's music, he was equally passionate about Ellington's music which equally crops up amongst the repertoire of his work.

                  Although he reached some pretty "outside" destinations, his music always swung. I find that this is a quality absent in many players who went along the same direction (a prime example being Anthony Braxton) and no matter how adventurous he became, the music always swung and there was no claim about needing to widen the definition of jazz even though instruments like thumb pianos could sometimes materialise in his groups. His comments about repertoire and the process of improvisation make it pretty clear that he always considered himself a jazz musician as opposed to an improviser. We really need more musicians with this kind of puritanical approach amongst the younger generation of players. These kind of views no longer seem present.

                  Bruce - I saw Steve Lacy as a member of Gil Evans orchestra at Hammersmith Odeon when the line up also included George Adams, Lew Sewloff, Palle Mikkelberg, Hiram Bullock, Dan Gottlieb, John Surman, Mark Egan, etc.

                  Comment

                  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4221

                    #10
                    Evan Parker saw the now famous "School Days" line up (With Roswell Rudd etc) on his first exploratory trip to New York in 1962. The band's mission became to play exclusively Monk. Parker asked Lacy if he perhaps he knew "Think of one". Lacy, "Yes, I think we do know that"!

                    BN.

                    Comment

                    • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4221

                      #11
                      Btw, the Dick Sutton Sextet : featured Dick Sutton on trumpet, Ray Anderson on trombone, Steve Lacy on soprano sax, Don Sitterlex on baritone sax, Mark Trail on bass, and Billy DeHay on drums.

                      They (or their record label) described themselves as "Progressive Dixieland". Not I.

                      BN.

                      Comment

                      • Ian Thumwood
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 4032

                        #12
                        The musicians Lacy worked with included Buck Clayton, Jimmy Rushing, Dicky Wells , Walter Page ( all , of course, associated with Basie's 1930's band), Pee Wee Russell, Rex Stewart and Joe Sullivan. He cited Coleman Hawkins, Benny Carter and Bill Coleman as influences. To me, these musicians represented the vanguard of jazz in the 1930s as opposed to some nightmare version of Trad Jazz. In the liner notes on his debut, Lacy was still citing older players as an influence in addition to musicians who would then have been seen as contemporary in the late 1950's.

                        I find it really difficult to separate jazz as being post or pre Charlie Parker. It is just jazz. Be-bop no longer seems radical in 2017 and is more historic than the jazz I explored when I first started to listen to the music in earnest in the early 1980's. It is great that thee are "forward thinking" musicians like Steve Lacy who could make these connections. The best avant garde players, in my mind, owe something to the heritage and their music is stronger for this fact. I think that perhaps too many contemporary players look outside of jazz for inspiration and maybe some of the current labels like ECM and ACT encourage a more Euro-centric approach. I don't feel that this devalues the work on these labels necessarily, but the connection to jazz's heritage certainly makes groups coming out of a tradition like AACM more credible, Ditto Lacy. As "outside" as he often was, Lacy's music was as "in the tradition" as anything that the New Neos might have cut in the 1980s. His one of the great and most distinctive voices in any style of jazz.

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                        • Ian Thumwood
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 4032

                          #13
                          Sam Newsome's transcription of Lacy's solo on "Softly..."

                          (Newsome being yet another soprano sax player who specializes in solo performances.)

                          Steve Lacy's improvised solo on the Sigmund Romberg and Oscar Hammerstein composition "Softly, as in a Morning Sunrise" was transcrib...

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                          • Richard Barrett
                            Guest
                            • Jan 2016
                            • 6259

                            #14
                            I don't know much about Lacy's recordings, apart from the atypical New Jazz Meeting 2002, his last date I believe, which whatever the reissue cover says is a Bernhard Lang album with Lacy guesting (and which Lacy by all accounts hated every second of). I saw him play a couple of times in the 1990s, once solo and once with Mengelberg, Bennink and Lewis, and found his detached way of playing, especially in the solo set, quite unattractive, more like hearing someone practising their licks rather than hearing music coming into being. But of course many musicians I rate very highly, Evan P principal among them, have nothing but admiration for Lacy. I just haven't really got what's going on there.

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                            • Serial_Apologist
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 36822

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                              I don't know much about Lacy's recordings, apart from the atypical New Jazz Meeting 2002, his last date I believe, which whatever the reissue cover says is a Bernhard Lang album with Lacy guesting (and which Lacy by all accounts hated every second of). I saw him play a couple of times in the 1990s, once solo and once with Mengelberg, Bennink and Lewis, and found his detached way of playing, especially in the solo set, quite unattractive, more like hearing someone practising their licks rather than hearing music coming into being. But of course many musicians I rate very highly, Evan P principal among them, have nothing but admiration for Lacy. I just haven't really got what's going on there.
                              I know what you're saying, Richard. As one who does have an affinity for Lacy's improvising approach, I would have liked to refer you to his solo on Monk's "Evidence", from the Volume 1 1975 Globe Unity recording of that title on FMP, taken from the Workshop Freie Musik of March of that year. My take on Lacy differs from Ian's inasmuch that I don't understand Lacy to be "about" swinging, but of a view of Monk's structures - some of them at any rate, as possessing innate potentials for exploitation in abstract directions. The actual tune, "Evidence", had manifested this from the start, evidenced (excuse pun) in what I presume to be one of the earliest versions of the tune, that with Milt Jackson (vibes) John Simmons (bass) and Shadow Wilson (drums) from 1948 on the Blue Note Re-Issue Series "Thelonius Monk The Complete Genius". In the Globe Unity recording, the underlying structure originally presented as the straightforward 32-bar standard in 4/4 with a bridge it would always be, stripped of melody but with an over-spanning alternative melody based on extended harmonies in the manner of a Dameron or a Tristano merely interspersed by seemingly randomly placed chromatic chords, is replicated by its initial faithful reproduction by the trio of Schlippenbach, Kowald and Lovens. Lacy then "swans in", improvising from the first chorus repeat, then gradually insinuates his own narrative, initially pulling away from the chorus structure and then, as the other instruments fumble their way into some kind of dialogue, almost bringing forward momentum to a halt. A kind of crisis then unfolds as the collective weight of the ensemble comes to bear on where Lacy might be leading, which is not at all clear! - until Lacy winds himself into a frustration of encircling figurations. Once spent of all accumulated energy and tension, the music dwindles to a mysterious pointillism of etiolated sound gestures before Schlippenbach quietly re-insinuates the piano chords, which are then gently re-iterated by the band, minus Lovens, closing the number.

                              It really is an extraordinary performance from a session which itself was far from ordinary, and I would have liked to have located it on utube, but this was not to be found. Evan Parker's championing of Lacy - and I have heard him do this - was not in evidence (oh dear!) in performances I have heard which placed them alongside each other in the same line-ups; however, I do have an audio cassette from a BBC recording from 2004 with Evan joining a trio led by the English bassist Dave Green. To divert for a moment, Green had been a childhood friend of Charlie Watts of Rolling Stones fame - they had played skiffle in a school band - and Watts called on Dave Green when he formed a group dedicated to performing Charlie Parker tunes (resulting in a CD "From One Charlie To Another"!) which included Evan Parker. Since Charlie's monolithic mid-1980s big band, Evan Parker could be heard on occasion either "doing his thing", namely providing circular breathed chains of arpeggiated continuity mainly as functional textural embellishment, or, launching off from relatively conventional improvisational phraseology (for him at any rate!) before, as we say, "taking it out". Whereas it always appeared de rigueur for ensembles to fragment "in sympathy", usually led by the rhythm section likewise fragmenting or abstracting from the pulse so as to subordinate all sense of momentum down to the moment-centreing disciplines players such as Evan and Derek Bailey had introduced as one way of making free music in the Spontaneous Music Ensemble - and this, as the late critic Charles Fox remarked to me - was one of the excitements of hearing Evan or (less often) Derek in otherwise straight-ahead contexts - the Dave Green trio, with Iain Dixon on tenor and clarinets and the American Gene Calderazzo on drums, had for the most part espoused straight or at any rate straightish ahead playing in an area idiomatically midway between the pianoless Sonny Rollins trios of the late 1950s, ie playing over changes but outwards bound, and Ornette Coleman's Atlantic trios of the same period. When Evan was invited to join this trio in 2004, it appears that he was fully willing to accommodate to its orthodoxies. Anyway, this has been a round the mulberry bush way of reaching the Lacy connection, since the broadcast was bookended with two Monk tunes, unfamiliar ones to non-specialists I would guess - "Shuffle Boil" and "Play Twice". Both were taken at a mid to uptempo, and on both Evan soloed on soprano sax. Aside from the fact that in being required as it were to improvise against a conventionally swinging 4/4 rhythm section Evan displayed no signs whatever of strain or being hemmed in by the ostensible limitations of the situation, what was also immediately noticeable was that in both cases he was taking Steve Lacy as his model, springboarding from his own channelling of what I would describe as Lacy's rubato approach and then developing it in the true sense of improvising as opposed to playing licks in such a way as to throw light on and make his own sense of Lacy's way of proceeding. if you had heard this I think you would have found it most useful in elucidating another way into Lacy's, for some, baffling musical thought processes.

                              I guess I'm just using this as an example of how one can be put off from appreciating certain kinds of music or composers' work by not finding the right way in for oneself. Unfortunately AFAIK this group never recorded as the trio plus Evan, although in its initial form it had recorded a CD entitled "Time Will Tell" back in 1998.

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