How to play jazz...

[Serial_Apologist]

Not helpful at all. But than I wasn't writing a review (which indeed I couldn't), just giving my spontaneous impression before breakfast.

Sorry Pianorak, I wasn't referring to your good self!

[Ian Thumwood]

One answer to the question: how helpful are you being by writing a review of something you don't like (or understand)?

I was quite surprised by the review to be honest but I found the very negative review to be quite refreshing. It is always something of a scoundrel's response poor reviews that the person reviewing it did not understand their music / play / painting / film, etc but if everyone else can have a bad day in the studio, why can't free improvisers? The interesting point was that the reviewer suggest there was nothing for the amusing of either the listener or indeed the players. The description of the music makes it sound pretty uninspiring and reinforces my opinion that jazz can go wrong for a number of reasons yet, when it does, the results in Free Jazz / Improvised music are often more catastrophic than in any other form of jazz. There is a strong sense that there is nothing left to salvage. Oddly, this is the second review of this nature that I have come across in the last six months.

I think with freer elements of playing there is always a massive element of risk involved. For me, some of the best jazz is rather like someone riding a monocycle along a high wire whilst balancing a chain saw on the end of their nose. There is the excitement in the danger of the music. Manieri is a musician I once had two CDs by and I really disliked them. In fact, one was palmed off on my by a friend and I gave it back. On the other hand, Evan Parker can be hugely impressive although I would add that I much prefer listening to him perform live where the results are fascinating.

SA's comments are intriguing because it begs the question as to whether the listener is partisan to the musician whose work is being reviewed. Is a bad improv recording more deserving than a good Trad Jazz record? Is the idea better than the execution? Personally, this review makes a good guide whereas another site like All About Jazz rarely gives recordings less than about 4 out of five stars and, in my opinion, is prone to over-praising quite ordinary records.

[CGR]

How to play jazz , or not......

https://jazztimes.com/reviews/albums/mat-maneri-sounding-tears/

This review makes an interesting read.

Having now gone to YouTube and listened to an extract of the album and seen some of their live stuff, I must say that the review was quite fair in my opinion. I've always had a soft spot for modernist music (Boulez, Stockhausen, etc.) and free improv in the jazz world, but this was not my cup of Rosie-Lee.

[Serial_Apologist]

I was quite surprised by the review to be honest but I found the very negative review to be quite refreshing. It is always something of a scoundrel's response poor reviews that the person reviewing it did not understand their music / play / painting / film, etc but if everyone else can have a bad day in the studio, why can't free improvisers? The interesting point was that the reviewer suggest there was nothing for the amusing of either the listener or indeed the players. The description of the music makes it sound pretty uninspiring and reinforces my opinion that jazz can go wrong for a number of reasons yet, when it does, the results in Free Jazz / Improvised music are often more catastrophic than in any other form of jazz. There is a strong sense that there is nothing left to salvage. Oddly, this is the second review of this nature that I have come across in the last six months.

I think with freer elements of playing there is always a massive element of risk involved. For me, some of the best jazz is rather like someone riding a monocycle along a high wire whilst balancing a chain saw on the end of their nose. There is the excitement in the danger of the music. Manieri is a musician I once had two CDs by and I really disliked them. In fact, one was palmed off on my by a friend and I gave it back. On the other hand, Evan Parker can be hugely impressive although I would add that I much prefer listening to him perform live where the results are fascinating.

SA's comments are intriguing because it begs the question as to whether the listener is partisan to the musician whose work is being reviewed. Is a bad improv recording more deserving than a good Trad Jazz record? Is the idea better than the execution? Personally, this review makes a good guide whereas another site like All About Jazz rarely gives recordings less than about 4 out of five stars and, in my opinion, is prone to over-praising quite ordinary records.

You could be right, Ian; it's just that I'd probably hand over to someone who liked or at least respected the stuff. Plus, I think in criticism there are more "constructive" ways to take a duff recording or performance apart, especially in already marginalised areas of music!

[Ian Thumwood]

This is a terrific recording by Duke Ellington playing "it don't mean a swing." It is fantastic to see two of my favourite soloists in this band - Tricky Sam Nanton on trombone and the violin of Ray Nance. The tenor is Ben Webster but I cannot identify the boppish trumpet player.

[Quarky]

Taft Jordan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avVWeonM9tM

[Ian Thumwood]

Vespare

Thanks for the response as well as reminding me of the Chick Webb track which I haven't heard for years.

Taft Jordan is one of those trumpeters who produced a fine body of work as members of some of the great big bands of the 30's and 40's. I have forgotten that he played for Ellington as I usually associate his work with Chick Webb where he was probably their most capable soloist. Webb's band is something of anomaly insofar that is was instrumental in forwarding the career of Edgar Sampson who really made his name with Benny Goodman and being a massive part in the evolution of swing before really transforming it's style to sound a lot like Goodman's band. The records he made are generally very good but I sometimes wonder where it would have arrive at by the 1940s given everything about Webb, including his style of drumming, was rooted in that decade.

There is a book by Garvin Bushell who played with Webb which is fascinating reading in which he is critical about Webb's band sounding too "white." I think this is probably accountable to the number of arrangements written by Van Alexander who contributed masses of novelty / popular material and detracted from the hedonistic , swing recordings which ultimately secured Webb's reputation. This is a brilliant book that looks at jazz from the early 20's up until Coltrane and another I seem to recall finishing in a couple of sittings.

The instrumental material recorded by Chick Webb was pretty much the epitome of the Swing Era and records like "Go, Harlem" and "Harlem Congo" easily ranks as amongst the best big band records of the 1930's. They are records that I genuinely love even though I think Webb quickly got overtaken by Basie's original band which rendered many of Webb's contemporaries old-fashioned.

Jordan was a mainstay with Webb before he joined Ellington and I think he cropped up on a number of mainstream record in the 1950's. Certainly a player who deserves to be more widely remembered even if his early work owed a lot to Louis Armstrong.

Much appreciated for reminding me of the fine trumpeter that was Taft Jordan.

[Ian Thumwood]

This live performance (from the same gig as above) was recorded about 6 weeks before Webb's death.

The photo is amazing as there is no hi-hat. It seems to be a very old-fashioned drum kit he is playing - something I had never noticed before alveit the wood-blocks always struck me as a bit antiquated.

[Ian Thumwood]

I think track illustrates just how much his band seemed to have come under the thrall of Benny Goodman by 1939 even it the music is played with more aggression that the clarinetist's band of the time and, dare I say it, much more cohesive and tighter.

This concert from the Savoy Ballroom is interesting as so many live recordings of big bands of this era are a disappointment either from fidelity or simply due to sloppy and uninspired playing. The Webb band on this recording sounds like it was going full steam.

[Quarky]

........................Many thanks for all your informative posts, Ian.

[Serial_Apologist]

........................Many thanks for all your informative posts, Ian.

And for the worldwide Webb!

[Tenor Freak]

Pianorak

Shocked to see that the piano course you have kinked to is organised by the Raging Inferno, well known around these parts albeit not too fondly!

Quick de-lurk to agree with Ian. This gentleman (the "raging inferno") is one of the few people I have felt like punching, as he was such a patronising twat.

[Pianorak]

. . . he was such a patronising twat.

I wish I could disagree with that. Not sure I want to sit through the remaining four weeks of this six-week course.