Miles Ahead (the movie)

[Richard Barrett]

I wish I could remember who recommended that I watch this film, because I'd give them a good talking to. Has anyone here seen it? It might have been good if the makers had thought of it as a disjointed thriller about a jazz musician loosely based on the Miles of the late 1970s, but the fact that random bits of his biography are mixed up with a ridiculous fictional story about a stolen comeback tape, replete with caricature characters out of 70s film & TV, causes it to fail both as biopic and as "just a film". Don Cheadle in the title role (also director and producer) looks convincing playing the trumpet but bears no resemblance whatever to Miles; plus the whole thing is shot in such darkness you can't see what's going on at all some of the time. Don't bother is my advice.

However it's sent me back to the Miles shelf today, beginning with Big Fun which seems generally to be forgotten. It's about as laid back as it's possible to be, so the music isn't coming at you thick and fast as in for example On the Corner, and the overdubbed second Miles in a few places is quite disconcerting, but as an experimental kind of studio composition there's something unique and compelling about it I think.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks for the tip-off on the fillum, Richard - also on Big Fun, the one Miles album that I have never listened to.

[Ian Thumwood]

Richard

The reviews were general unfavourable but I don't think that Miles would have made a particularly interesting biographical film anyway, The film was mooted seemingly ages ago and it was ironic that it arrived at roughly the same time as the Chet Baker biopic which received criticism for Ethan Hawkes unconvincing dubbing. The problem with Miles is that the music was terrific (up until the mid 80's) but he was such an unpleasant character that he is not someone you particularly want brought back to life on screen. Aside from the music, I don't think that he really did anything else that was interesting.

The film "Low Down" which is loosely based on the life of pianist Joe Albany is supposed to be better than both of the other but I have not seen any of these films. However, as a rule, films about jazz tend to disappoint. The more famous musicians' lives would not be great cinema and it was a surprise that "Bird" was actually as good as it was. The question you keep asking yourself is just how many films do we need about jazz musicians with drug problems? The best recent film was about musicians associated with jazz was the one about Ray Charles. I would be curious to see if someone could think outside the box and come up with a film about a jazz musician who wasn't involved with drugs or alcohol and maybe channel it in to something more positive. It seems odd to me that no one has really considered reflecting upon the Harlem Renaissance in film and endeavoured to tell the story of someone like James Europe who pioneered popular dance music, formed a trade union for black musicians and also had a successful musical career. The broader picture of a record label like Black Swan would also be interesting. I am sick of seeing films which portray jazz negatively.

[pastoralguy]

I watched 'Miles Ahead' and wasn't much impressed. Cheadle was good but the 'plot' was pretty woeful. I watched 'What.happened, Miss Simone' yesterday and enjoyed it despite her life being... eventful!

My fav. Jazz biography movie is Woody Allan's 'Sweet and Lowdown' which, IMHO is excellent. It's about the little known jazz guitarist Emmet Ray. (As well as having the funniest scene of all time!) It's a very touching story of poor decisions and loss. I had to get it on Dvd from Germany but we'll worth it.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Richard

The reviews were general unfavourable but I don't think that Miles would have made a particularly interesting biographical film anyway, The film was mooted seemingly ages ago and it was ironic that it arrived at roughly the same time as the Chet Baker biopic which received criticism for Ethan Hawkes unconvincing dubbing. The problem with Miles is that the music was terrific (up until the mid 80's) Aside from the music, I don't think that he really did anything else that was interesting.

The film "Low Down" which is loosely based on the life of pianist Joe Albany is supposed to be better than both of the other but I have not seen any of these films. However, as a rule, films about jazz tend to disappoint. The more famous musicians' lives would not be great cinema and it was a surprise that "Bird" was actually as good as it was. The question you keep asking yourself is just how many films do we need about jazz musicians with drug problems? The best recent film was about musicians associated with jazz was the one about Ray Charles. I would be curious to see if someone could think outside the box and come up with a film about a jazz musician who wasn't involved with drugs or alcohol and maybe channel it in to something more positive. It seems odd to me that no one has really considered reflecting upon the Harlem Renaissance in film and endeavoured to tell the story of someone like James Europe who pioneered popular dance music, formed a trade union for black musicians and also had a successful musical career. The broader picture of a record label like Black Swan would also be interesting. I am sick of seeing films which portray jazz negatively.

"...but he was such an unpleasant character that he is not someone you particularly want brought back to life on screen."

There should be fewer films about "unpleasant characters"? Really?!!! The art form known as "cinema" humbly begs forgiveness. I personally refuse to watch ANYTHING that doesn't have Wendy Craig in it...

I also refused to watch "The Railway Children" because someone told me Ron Coltrane had a bit part as a porter and we all know what an evil drug addicted bastard he was. Why can't we have nice films about nice jazz musicians? And lots of sun and mountains...and rabbits.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

"...but he was such an unpleasant character that he is not someone you particularly want brought back to life on screen."

There should be fewer films about "unpleasant characters"? Really?!!! The art form known as "cinema" humbly begs forgiveness. I personally refuse to watch ANYTHING that doesn't have Wendy Craig in it...

I also refused to watch "The Railway Children" because someone told me Ron Coltrane had a bit part as a porter and we all know what an evil drug addicted bastard he was. Why can't we have nice films about nice jazz musicians? And lots of sun and mountains...and rabbits.

BN.

Bluesnik

To be honest, that is not really the kind of response that it befitting of you. You know exactly what I mean. Great cinema does not have to be continually positive but , if you want to be brutally honest, nearly all films about jazz made since the 1980s are the same film. Granted that a lot of jazz musicians had problems with narcotics and there are plenty of characters who had equally screwed up personalities, there are surely other , more interesting stories to be made about jazz ? I rarely bother to watch these films as they are generally so negative and are almost indistinguishable from each other.

I would not want to watch films that offered only positive perspectives or which did not represent a challenge. However, there is just as much point as making the same film about drug-taking jazz musicians as there is about making the same record. It is about time that film makers changed the tune. These films only serve to reinforce 70 year old stereotypes whereas a bit of thorough research would be able to come up with a more interesting angle on jazz as opposed to the usual "troubled artist" feature. There is a far broader picture and more interesting story to tell as to how jazz musicians battle racial prejudice, artistic prejudice or even how jazz was exported around the world with the likes of Bechet and Ladnier going to the Soviet Union.

You must also be the only person over the age of 45 who didn't watch "the Railway Children" because of the young Jenny Agutter!!

cheers

Ian

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Bluesnik

To be honest, that is not really the kind of response that it befitting of you. You know exactly what I mean. Great cinema does not have to be continually positive but , if you want to be brutally honest, nearly all films about jazz made since the 1980s are the same film. Granted that a lot of jazz musicians had problems with narcotics and there are plenty of characters who had equally screwed up personalities, there are surely other , more interesting stories to be made about jazz ? I rarely bother to watch these films as they are generally so negative and are almost indistinguishable from each other.

I would not want to watch films that offered only positive perspectives or which did not represent a challenge. However, there is just as much point as making the same film about drug-taking jazz musicians as there is about making the same record. It is about time that film makers changed the tune. These films only serve to reinforce 70 year old stereotypes whereas a bit of thorough research would be able to come up with a more interesting angle on jazz as opposed to the usual "troubled artist" feature. There is a far broader picture and more interesting story to tell as to how jazz musicians battle racial prejudice, artistic prejudice or even how jazz was exported around the world with the likes of Bechet and Ladnier going to the Soviet Union.

You must also be the only person over the age of 45 who didn't watch "the Railway Children" because of the young Jenny Agutter!!

cheers

Ian

It was tongue in cheek Ian, no offence intended! Mind you there was a lot of drug use in the Railway Children...that scene where Bernard Cribbins "fixes" young Sally Thomsett using a rusty needle and bad smack and she turns blue? That was like something out of The Connection. I looked away...when I saw it in Paris people fainted. French people.

BN.

[burning dog]

Big Fun has a brilliant track called great expectations !


Which is also a great film.....

[Serial_Apologist]

Big Fun has a brilliant track called great expectations !


Which is also a great film.....

Oh, "Great Expectations" (the music) was issued as a single, which is the version I seem to have. Handn't realised.....

[pastoralguy]

It was tongue in cheek Ian, no offence intended! Mind you there was a lot of drug use in the Railway Children...that scene where Bernard Cribbins "fixes" young Sally Thomsett using a rusty needle and bad smack and she turns blue? That was like something out of The Connection. I looked away...when I saw it in Paris people fainted. French people.

BN.

Wasn't Sally Thomsett older than Ms. Agutter? Lionel Jeffrey, the Railway Children's director, forbade her from smoking and driving her sports car during location filming!

[Richard Barrett]

The question you keep asking yourself is just how many films do we need about jazz musicians with drug problems?

To be fair the film doesn't centre on "drug problems". One of the difficulties with making films about creative musicians is that actually they spend more time making and thinking about music than anything else. So why not just make a film about that? The recent Beatles documentary Eight Days a Week was a good example in that regard. I would defy anyone to watch it and not come out liking them and appreciating their music more than before. One of the nicest scenes in the Miles film was a flashback to studio sessions with Gil Evans where those two are sitting at a piano (very briefly) talking through some technical stuff, without the kind of mindless compromise that would normally result, in scenes like this, from the thought that 90% of the audience aren't going to be able to follow it.

While working yesterday evening I played through the entirety of the Silent Way sessions. I'm not a Miles expert but it seems to me there's a massive amount of valuable material there which never made it onto an official release at the time.

[Beef Oven!]

To be fair the film doesn't centre on "drug problems". One of the difficulties with making films about creative musicians is that actually they spend more time making and thinking about music than anything else. So why not just make a film about that? The recent Beatles documentary Eight Days a Week was a good example in that regard. I would defy anyone to watch it and not come out liking them and appreciating their music more than before. One of the nicest scenes in the Miles film was a flashback to studio sessions with Gil Evans where those two are sitting at a piano (very briefly) talking through some technical stuff, without the kind of mindless compromise that would normally result, in scenes like this, from the thought that 90% of the audience aren't going to be able to follow it.

While working yesterday evening I played through the entirety of the Silent Way sessions. I'm not a Miles expert but it seems to me there's a massive amount of valuable material there which never made it onto an official release at the time.

Your post prompted me to listen to the Silent Way sessions, and it was a revelation. So much excellent music, much of it more interesting than the official release.

It always makes me wonder how people come to the decision about what to put out and what to edit/discard. I suppose hindsight has a bearing!

[Richard Barrett]

Your post prompted me to listen to the Silent Way sessions, and it was a revelation. So much excellent music, much of it more interesting than the official release.

It always makes me wonder how people come to the decision about what to put out and what to edit/discard. I suppose hindsight has a bearing!

Yes, all kinds of non-musical considerations would have gone into the choice of material for official releases, especially commercial considerations of course. I've always found unconvincing the way in which the same recording of the title track is used at the beginning and end of (originally) the second side of the album. In A Silent Way should have been at least a double album but I guess there was a limit to which the bean-counters thought a jazz audience would take to innovative (and often highly spacious) music such as this, although most of the recordings were eventually released on the outtakes compilations brought out during Miles's retirement. I didn't take much notice of these at the time, but in the context of the Silent Way box set sense of discovery is palpable. (On the other hand, some of the previously unreleased material on the Bitches Brew sessions seems to me clearly to consist of tryouts that didn't lead anywhere in particular.)

[Beef Oven!]

Yes, all kinds of non-musical considerations would have gone into the choice of material for official releases, especially commercial considerations of course. I've always found unconvincing the way in which the same recording of the title track is used at the beginning and end of (originally) the second side of the album. In A Silent Way should have been at least a double album but I guess there was a limit to which the bean-counters thought a jazz audience would take to innovative (and often highly spacious) music such as this, although most of the recordings were eventually released on the outtakes compilations brought out during Miles's retirement. I didn't take much notice of these at the time, but in the context of the Silent Way box set sense of discovery is palpable. (On the other hand, some of the previously unreleased material on the Bitches Brew sessions seems to me clearly to consist of tryouts that didn't lead anywhere in particular.)

My previous experience of ‘complete recordings’, 'undiscovered tapes' etc, has mainly been along the lines of your observations on Bitches Brew. Maybe In A Silent Way is something of an outlier.

[Tenor Freak]

I have made my views on Miles the human being before...but I still listen to his music.

Thanks for the tip on "Big Fun" - NP. "Great Expectations"