For peace sweet

[Serial_Apologist]

Sat 15 Oct
4.00 Jazz Record Requests
Alyn Shipton with listeners' requests from across the jazz spectrum, including a classic track by Charles Mingus and the Jazz Workshop.

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog

5.00 Jazz Line-Up
Claire Martin interviews two of Britain's best loved vocalists, the mother and daughter team of Cleo Laine and Jacqui Dankworth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07z43sn

12.00 Geoffrey Smith's Jazz
Famed for their musical subtlety and sophistication during a 40-year plus career started in 1952, the Modern Jazz Quartet were also masters of swing, laying down foot-tapping grooves at any tempo. Geoffrey Smith celebrates their rhythmic side in classics such as Django and Animal Dance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07z45x6

Monday 17 Oct
11.00 Jazz Now
Soweto Kinch presents music by the quintet led by British saxophonist Paul Dunmall with guest percussionist Hamid Drake, recorded on 4 October at the MAC in Birmingham.

A mate of mine, who saw this group at the Vortex, reported it being as good as anything he had seen Paul Dunmall involved in; and that's saying a lot imv, in both senses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07z6dtk

Jamie Cullum interviews Zoe Rahman in his R2 programme next Tuesday at 7 pm, sharing their appreciation of Horace Silver, it says in RT, "and Rahman discusses her recent album with Courtney Pine".

[Quarky]

Sat 15 Oct
4.00 Jazz Record Requests

5.00 Jazz Line-Up
Claire Martin interviews two of Britain's best loved vocalists, the mother and daughter team of Cleo Laine and Jacqui Dankworth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07z43sn

Cleo Laine. I have never been totally comfortable with Cleo's singing - too ready to go up into her high registers. Listening to Summer Time with Ray Charles however, I felt it may have all been Johnny Dankworth's fault, and that musically, she was married to the wrong man.

By the way Jazz FM has been improving of late, with the new presenter of Dinner Jazz playing some real jazz - Sarah Vaughn, Abbie Lincoln, and interesting instrumental music.

[Serial_Apologist]

Cleo Laine. I have never been totally comfortable with Cleo's singing - too ready to go up into her high registers. Listening to Summer Time with Ray Charles however, I felt it may have all been Johnny Dankworth's fault, and that musically, she was married to the wrong man.

By the way Jazz FM has been improving of late, with the new presenter of Dinner Jazz playing some real jazz - Sarah Vaughn, Abbie Lincoln, and interesting instrumental music.

I found Claire M's interview of Cleo Laine thorougly enjoyable, I have to say. I think it's the first time ever that I have heard the issue of race raised with her, or I would have remembered her reference to her mother's large broomstick! I would recommend everyone to listen to this programme.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Cleo Laine. I have never been totally comfortable with Cleo's singing - too ready to go up into her high registers. Listening to Summer Time with Ray Charles however, I felt it may have all been Johnny Dankworth's fault, and that musically, she was married to the wrong man.

By the way Jazz FM has been improving of late, with the new presenter of Dinner Jazz playing some real jazz - Sarah Vaughn, Abbie Lincoln, and interesting instrumental music.

I think the original idea for "Porgy and Bess" was to get Gladys Knight to partner Ray. That fell through because of money, egos, labels, billing or whatever. I think Ms GK would have been vastly superior because she actually has a hell of a voice and.... taste. I admire Cleo Lane as a person and from the interviews I've heard she comes over very well. But as a singer? Those awful mannerisms stacked on awful mannerisms? No thanks please.

[Ian Thumwood]

I caught the first twenty minutes of JLU after coming out of the football and thought that the SMJO track performed was actually "Creole Love Call" and not "Black & Tan Fantasy." I heard the opening of the Dankworth interview before going to M&S but felt that the programme selection I caught seemed representative of the jazz scene when I was discovering he music in the early 1980's and before the music was re-booted later in that decade. I tend to agree with Oddball's assessment. I think that Cleo Laine has a brilliant voice and is a total musician. It was interesting to hear her comment about working with the guitarist John Williams although such projects were symptomatic of the public's lack of interest in jazz at the time and cross-over projects like this seemed to "legitimise" jazz when it didn't seem relevant. On the other hand, I can see why a lot of jazz fans who considered themselves to be "purists" scoffed at these kind of enterprises. Getting in to jazz as a teenager when the music was not popular made it necessary to listen to any interviews on the radio as I was eager to explore the music and both Cleo Laine and John Dankworth were often interviewed on the more popular radio programmes which supplemented other programmes presented by the likes of Alan Dell and Humphrey Lyttelton which were my primary sources on national radio to explore the music.

In retrospect, I think that they were both much better than I had imagined at the time. The Dankworths seemed to be caught between two stools when considered amongst the people who encouraged me to explore jazz when I was about 13-14. Nearly everyone came from my Dad's generation or older and the two prevailing views seemed either to denigrate Dankworth's big band in favour of Ted Heaths ( technically superior and generally held in more affection than Dankworth's band yet devoid of serious jazz whereas Danksworth's band seems increasing under-appreciated) or lacking the jazz credibility of other British musicians such as Tubby Hayes, Stan Tracey or Joe Harriot or even ignored in favour of American artists. This seemed increasingly the case when Cleo Laine worked with John Williams and James Galway. I suspect that these recordings are the ones most likely to hold affection amongst the listening public but probably mistrusted by a more hardcore jazz audience. By the time these recordings were made, she was very much part of the Establishment.

I think that both Dankworth and Cleo Laine were ultimately the most recognisable faces in British jazz and the creation of Wavendon was probably the ultimate achievement. Amongst my contemporaries at school, Cleo Laine was the most well known jazz musician in the country and I had a difficult time explaining that I didn't listen to her music. She is someone I greatly admire but, to be honest, a musician whose work rarely interests - especially the very musical but easy listening efforts from the 1970s.

[Serial_Apologist]

the guitarist John Williams

Mention of the famous guitarist prompts me to mention his daughter Kate Williams , who I had no idea until the day before yesterday was his daughter! She co-runs Way Out West once a week, twice from the renowned Bull's Head in Barnes, once from the Posk restaurant at the Polish centre in Chiswick, a collective which includes SW London luminaries such as Pete Hurt, Tim Whitehead, Chris Biscoe and the still very active octogenarian drummer Tony Kinsey, who sounds and looks a good twenty years younger than he actually is!

Here is Kate being greeted on stage by an apparently unsuspecting dad on some Scandinavian telly show, 6 years ago. Don't feel obliged to watch the duet with John Ethridge which follows Kate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZDiZw2cnko

And here she accompanies the great Bobby Wellins in a duo that's been going for some time now. The Bill Evans influence is one she readily acknowledges; comparisons with Nikki Iles will inevitably be made, I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGuH68OgJQ4

[Ian Thumwood]

I believe that John Williams has stated that he is unable to improvise - something that I have found quite staggering when you consider his skill as a soloist. It is odd how musicians who can improvise and those you can't mix but the collaborations of Cleo Laine with Galway and Williams don't really work as jazz, in my opinion. These collaborations seem very much a product of the 1970s and perhaps aimed at an audience who never really appreciated jazz but appreciated good musicianship. The best example was probably the Menuhin / Grappelli but I have a tape one time of Jean Pierre Ramphal performed in tandem with Claude Boling - himself someone who was a more than useful Ellington disciple. Cleo Laine's projects are just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think the results are bad but I would also say these efforts aren't great jazz by a long chalk. Nowadays, in these more cynical times, they almost seem like efforts to demonstrate the versatility of the classical artist as opposed to any meaningful fusion. I can't believe that these records would feature highly in the collections of those people posting on this board.

The 1970's concluded just as I was discovering jazz. I wasn't really in to Fusion at the time and certainly unaware of the loft scene that was well-underway in the States. For me, contemporary jazz at the time seemed to be dominated by people like Oscar Peterson, John Dankworth, Joe Pass, Buddy Rich and a host of band leaders from the 1940's. At the time, I never really appreciated that there were things that were more challenging and it would not have been interested if I did stumble across it. I think that jazz suffered in the media in the 1970s and never got the attention is deserved amongst the general public. Until the JLU interview, I had forgotten about the Laine / Williams record and their ilk.

The Kate Williams solo piano was ok. She has got bags of technique. The parallels with Bill Evans are unavoidable and hardly surprising insofar that Evans is probably the jazz pianist most heralded amongst classical musicians or indeed anyone coming from a strong musical education. I would imagine someone like Oscar Peterson would also feature quite highly on a list of jazz pianists popular with Classical performers and I wouldn't be surprised if a more modern player like Brad Mehldau would feature highly too. Talking to a pretty good local pianist a few weeks ago, he cited Bill Evans as his favourite pianist and then mentioned a number of other piano players he admired who were of a similar ilk. Players like McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock who many would consider to be superior to Evans often don't seem to be recognised. Even though this piano player seemed pretty informed from a technical point of view ( good sense of harmony) he had never heard of Andrew Hill - someone who had studied with Paul Hindemith and maybe worthy of more kudos from people not really familiar with jazz. He also seemed a bit sniffy about Thelonious Monk.

SA will probably be familiar with musicians within local scene who will similarly express favourable opinions of musicians who owe more to the Western Classical tradition than a musician offering a more idiosyncratic approach. It is curious that when people who usually listen to classical music turn their attention to jazz, they tend to favour those elements within the music which reflects a classical tradition. This would seem to favour harmony over rhythm and technical prowess over originality. I can sympathise with their opinions and understand why they would find it easy to admire Cleo Laine but I sometimes feel that attempts to "legitimise" jazz seldom work to it's benefit.

[Ian Thumwood]

I think the original idea for "Porgy and Bess" was to get Gladys Knight to partner Ray. That fell through because of money, egos, labels, billing or whatever. I think Ms GK would have been vastly superior because she actually has a hell of a voice and.... taste. I admire Cleo Lane as a person and from the interviews I've heard she comes over very well. But as a singer? Those awful mannerisms stacked on awful mannerisms? No thanks please.

It is the mannerisms that I find difficult too but, then again, I don't think that she is anywhere as bad as Cecile McLorin Salvant who I have seen a few times at Vienne. She seems to be adored by the critics yet I find her to be extremely stagey (not helped by the fact that she was wearing a pair of very large, white spectacles ) and her voice has a false and artificial air about it. Her mannerisms are well in excess of anything you could level at Cleo Laine and the whole retrospective feel of McLorin-Salvant's music makes me feel uncomfortable. Singers tend to get a rough ride from a lot of jazz fans but somehow McLorin Salvant seems to garner only praise. I can't bear either to watch or listen to her - fact not helped by her pianist Aaron Diehl seeming to have come from another era. It is almost a case of having to watch her through your fingers she is so bad. All in all, she is the phantom of 1950's "supper club" cool reincarnated and made horribly real. When you hear the cliché that jazz is dead, it is not the much maligned Wynton Marsalis that comes to mind but McLorin Salvant's "commercially minded Sarah Vaughan" meets Miss Haversham act that springs to mind. She is truly awful. It was bad enough in the 1950s but to encounter a musician performing in this manner in 2016 has a degree of absurdity about it. I am all for maintain the traditions or respecting the heritage of jazz yet there is surely nothing worse when it produces such an appalling pastiche as this singer. Her style of jazz is totally irredeemable and as bad, in her way, as the atrocious Ian Shaw.

[Quarky]

Monday 17 Oct
11.00 Jazz Now
Soweto Kinch presents music by the quintet led by British saxophonist Paul Dunmall with guest percussionist Hamid Drake, recorded on 4 October at the MAC in Birmingham.

A mate of mine, who saw this group at the Vortex, reported it being as good as anything he had seen Paul Dunmall involved in; and that's saying a lot imv, in both senses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07z6dtk

Correction to my previous post. I take back all my positive comments on Jazz FM - mainly dreary dross on Dinner Jazz.

[Alyn_Shipton]

I think Ian is mightily unfair to Ms Salvant, whom I have seen several times in concert and admired in terms of repertoire and delivery. I haven't written about her at length, but she made a pretty effective mark in Quebec three years ago: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...l-quality.html
Kate Williams is just one of the musicians to have been featured on Jazz Now over the last six months. We do try to present a broad cross section...

[Alyn_Shipton]

Oh and PS we had a set by Aaron Diehl on Jazz now as well, which I think might suggest that there is more to him than Ian's dismissal as "from another era". One day left to listen on radio i-player: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07vwmtz

[Ian Thumwood]

[Lat-Literal]

I found Claire M's interview of Cleo Laine thorougly enjoyable, I have to say. I think it's the first time ever that I have heard the issue of race raised with her, or I would have remembered her reference to her mother's large broomstick! I would recommend everyone to listen to this programme.

An interesting thread which I have read in full.

Suddenly there is an emphasis on BBC R3 - and elsewhere - on black and mixed raced musicians which I hadn't picked up on when commenting in the classical section. That has been evident in the replaying of Coleridge-Taylor as COTW, the feature on Ellington's "Black Brown and Beige" and much more. What I missed was the label - "Black History Month" - which seems to me to be more constructive than a lot of what is taking place under the BLM UK banner. I am actually quite resistant to some of what BLM UK are undertaking where the accent isn't on the positive and present day problems are arguably often artificially enlarged to reflect one specific version of modern American experience and scale.

I have always liked Cleo Laine and found the interview pleasant.

Re earlier posts, whatever reservations there may be about what many regard as her great singing style, they should be more than counteracted by its - and her - uniqueness in the breadth of British music history. But it has to be said that the collaborations with John Williams and James Galway were also slightly uneasy from a rock and soul etc etc perspective in the 1970s because they did seem to be very much in the easy listening category. "Cavatina" latterly came off "The Deerhunter" of course which was hardly an "easy listening" film. Additionally - and album sales aside - it was really Iris Williams who took it to high places in the singles chart and that to me placed the Laine version in its due context not only because of Laine's voice but the fact that she didn't have such lousy enunciation. Sadly, I find the Williams rendition impossible to listen to and always have done.

The late Wavendon thing is interesting in that I have visions of coach parties of not very musical pensioners descending on the area - and Snape Maltings - expecting something very light and getting instead quality which would not in all cases necessarily reach them. Maybe that is my odd take on it but if there is an element of truth to it, it is probably not a terrible thing. All of this overlooks that Cleo at her best was an archetypal cool 1960s singer and a cool person. It is in that sort of era where with JD I see her as true jazz and I would have thought BBC R3 in the future should perhaps let us hear a lot more of that sort of thing. I would like to hear more of it. R2 can adequately cover the rest of her output.

Cleo Laine and John Dankworth - Woman Talk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e6-TtsoUVs

Footnotes:

I see this one is not available - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freedom-Roa.../dp/B004M67DZI

Odd, dontcha think, that one of her parents had the same surname as one of the parents of Tina Turner!

(Incidentally, did Mr S mention that he was on the last record played on the recent JRR? If not, he was being very modest!)

[Quarky]

I have always liked Cleo Laine and found the interview pleasant.

Re earlier posts, whatever reservations there may be about what many regard as her great singing style, they should be more than counteracted by its - and her - uniqueness in the breadth of British music history. But it has to be said that the collaborations with John Williams and James Galway were also slightly uneasy from a rock and soul etc etc perspective in the 1970s because they did seem to be very much in the easy listening category. "Cavatina" latterly came off "The Deerhunter" of course which was hardly an "easy listening" film. Additionally - and album sales aside - it was really Iris Williams who took it to high places in the singles chart and that to me placed the Laine version in its due context not only because of Laine's voice but the fact that she didn't have such lousy enunciation. Sadly, I find the Williams rendition impossible to listen to and always have done.

The late Wavendon thing is interesting in that I have visions of coach parties of not very musical pensioners descending on the area - and Snape Maltings - expecting something very light and getting instead quality which would not in all cases necessarily reach them. Maybe that is my odd take on it but if there is an element of truth to it, it is probably not a terrible thing. All of this overlooks that Cleo at her best was an archetypal cool 1960s singer and a cool person. It is in that sort of era where with JD I see her as true jazz and I would have thought BBC R3 in the future should perhaps let us hear a lot more of that sort of thing. I would like to hear more of it. R2 can adequately cover the rest of her output.

A fair appreciation, Lat-Lit. I have nothing at all against Cleo, but listening to the track played on JRR this evening, I would have put her in the posh Cabaret / Musical theatre bracket. Interesting to compare her wiith Christine Tobin on JLU, a few minutes later. Chistine has developed (can't believe it's natural) an authentic Jazz-wail in her voice, the trademark of a Jazz singer.

Regretfully, I have to agree with Ian's appreciation of Mclorin Salvant. Let's hope she gets out of this nose dive; I have heard her sing some excellent stuff

[CGR]

"I would have put her in the posh Cabaret / Musical theatre bracket."

Isn't that the case with most so-called 'jazz singers'.