Will Jazz benefit under Jeremy Corbyn ?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4242

    Will Jazz benefit under Jeremy Corbyn ?

    Although I would not consider myself to be overtly political, I have been really impressed with Jeremy Corbyn's performance this week. There were instances where his performance ass Labour leader such as the Brexit campaign where they were perhaps found wanting. However, I think that he could be easily forgiven because of the lack of support that the Parliamentary Labour party have given him. Despite a shaky start where he was regularly out-performed in PMQ's by David Cameron, I feel that this week he is really starting to come in to his own with some sensible and pragmatic policies which do not necessarily pander to popular opinion yet which show that there is a via alternative to the kind of politics espoused during the last forty years. So much of what has been promised this week will take a long time to absorb and digest but the return to form of the Labour party now seems palpable and I think the fall-out from Brexit will ultimately prove the downfall of the current government within the next 12 months. Corbyn is now beginning to seem not only credible and almost visionary - nothing probably not thought possible throughout the summer.

    One subject which caught my eye was his comments regarding ear-marking an eye-watering £160 million to educate kids with the arts. For a long, long while, this has been seen as money being unnecessarily squandered but it is interesting that Labour now seem to be taking a different tack. I am interested in this because I feel that art is important but, to paraphrase George Orwell, some art is more important than others. I experienced the woeful results of Thatcher's interference and meddling with school funding in the 1980s when I was at school but I think she also allowed a culture to germinate where the arts became increasingly institutionalised. It will be interesting to see if all this money will be spent on arts education in a coordinated and structured maner and how music and especially jazz might fair in this divvying up on revenue. I think that it is great that music education should receive more funding and think that this can only be recommended however I am dead against the institutionalisation of jazz. Given Corbyn's love of Elvis, I think jazz might be pretty far off his radar but the sums of money being promised might be well spent in giving kids a broader and more practical musical education denied by cuts which would allow the music to flourish. I would hate to see official jazz courses and the music become formalised but I think more should be done at "street level" to help the music at grass roots so that the education establishments do not see all of whatever money would be promised.

    Does jazz education really need funding or is it better to let the music evolve organically? Will it suffer by potentially being given a crutch to lean on as has been the case in Holland (not sure if it is still the case but I recall reading an article on a website about Dutch government funding actually subsidising a lot of musicians deemed by the American commentator to be mediocre.) Would a socialist government have an agenda as to how the money is spent on arts education and is it likely that jazz will continue to be something or a poor relation in the arts world and how will external sponsorship of the arts fit in to a potential Labour government's manifesto? I don't ever recall any other political party bringing arts funding or at least financing arts education in to part of it's agenda to seem a credible party of government. In this respect, Corbyn is truly offering a "new politics" but I wonder if arts funding is likely to register with joe public when it comes to putting a tick in the box. Surely anyone with an interest in the arts and wants to see the arts taken more seriously must now be able to put faith in the fact that a government might at last took beyond funding the opera!!
  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37851

    #2
    Given that, in supporting the PLP, the reactionary press and broadcasting media has (have?) already written off Labour's increased membership as a "protest movement", whereas their fear is in its potential to form the basis of the kind of activist-led social movement without which any kind of socialism wouldn't have a cat-in-hell's chance of getting off the ground, that grass roots social movement will develop its own artistic dynamic, of which jazz would surely form an integral part, given that the format and convivial togetherness engendered by the music's modus vivendi is of itself intrinsically socialist, its success being about the equalisation of inputs and the individual's evolving individuality within its context, rather than in the division of labour attending writing music, and having it commissioned by somebody whose wealth position puts them in the capitalist establishment, with aesthetic compromise covertly part of the deal, and performed by somebody else. This was very much part of the Dutch and German avant-garde's positioning of free jazz in the 1970s, before neoliberalism swept it and the movements it supported away, and the private sponsorship that replaced Arts Coucil and similar bodies' regional funding schemes imposed limiting conditions in more cases than encouraging experiment, as well as alternative street theatre and performance art groups such as the Red Ladder, Scratch Orchestra and Mike Westbrook's Cadillac Express and Brass Band (not that he'd see his and Kate's stuff as performance art, even back then). Hence the continual need for self-subsidising co-operatives, even for ex-academy graduates taking the jazz route to "prosperity", such as the F-Ire and Loop Collectives - especially where the music evolves according to its immanent properties and potentials, i.e. on the bandstand. That's my view of it.

    Comment

    • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4316

      #3
      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
      Given that, in supporting the PLP, the reactionary press and broadcasting media has (have?) already written off Labour's increased membership as a "protest movement", whereas their fear is in its potential to form the basis of the kind of activist-led social movement without which any kind of socialism wouldn't have a cat-in-hell's chance of getting off the ground, that grass roots social movement will develop its own artistic dynamic, of which jazz would surely form an integral part, given that the format and convivial togetherness engendered by the music's modus vivendi is of itself intrinsically socialist, its success being about the equalisation of inputs and the individual's evolving individuality within its context, rather than in the division of labour attending writing music, and having it commissioned by somebody whose wealth position puts them in the capitalist establishment, with aesthetic compromise covertly part of the deal, and performed by somebody else. This was very much part of the Dutch and German avant-garde's positioning of free jazz in the 1970s, before neoliberalism swept it and the movements it supported away, and the private sponsorship that replaced Arts Coucil and similar bodies' regional funding schemes imposed limiting conditions in more cases than encouraging experiment, as well as alternative street theatre and performance art groups such as the Red Ladder, Scratch Orchestra and Mike Westbrook's Cadillac Express and Brass Band (not that he'd see his and Kate's stuff as performance art, even back then). Hence the continual need for self-subsidising co-operatives, even for ex-academy graduates taking the jazz route to "prosperity", such as the F-Ire and Loop Collectives - especially where the music evolves according to its immanent properties and potentials, i.e. on the bandstand. That's my view of it.
      Is jazz remotely "political" anymore, beyond the kind of apple pie liberalism that markets any other commodity? We are a very long way away from the 60s and early 70s, the entire cultural landscape has changed.

      Nevertheless, I'm a strong supporter of "Corbynism", primarily for the rupture it captures/advances and the sudden widening of debate and activity that now exits after more than two decades of willful closure and self serving BS. The "unsaid" can now be openly embraced . I'm honestly far less impressed by *some* of his supporters (after engaging with them) who are remarkably naive about what will be coming down the line. Its not a church fete and the present fire storm is just the start. As Tony Benn once said, "its ongoing, we never "finally" win and we need to bloody toughen up". But then I'm a cynical old Trot.

      Whether jazz can still prosper is something else. One of the ironies of Thatcherism was there was almost a hidden "start up" subsidy for music at a working class level via JCP and YTS etc. In Wales during the 80s we managed to channel that into music workshops and training. Unintended consequences.

      BTW I didn't know of Corby's Elvis fandom? I know he's a big reggae aficionado as he spent a year or two in Jamaica and the West Indies. His cat "El Gato", favours Afro Cuban...

      BN.
      Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; 30-09-16, 02:03.

      Comment

      • Ian Thumwood
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 4242

        #4
        I see that the hapless banana eating former Blue Labour minister has now made his jazz debut on an album by Ted Nash:-

        http://https://www.allaboutjazz.com/...n-bilawsky.php

        Nice to see Delfeayo Marsalis doing a nice line in anti-Trump irony too.

        Comment

        • Stanfordian
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 9329

          #5
          Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
          Although I would not consider myself to be overtly political, I have been really impressed with Jeremy Corbyn's performance this week. There were instances where his performance ass Labour leader such as the Brexit campaign where they were perhaps found wanting. However, I think that he could be easily forgiven because of the lack of support that the Parliamentary Labour party have given him. Despite a shaky start where he was regularly out-performed in PMQ's by David Cameron, I feel that this week he is really starting to come in to his own with some sensible and pragmatic policies which do not necessarily pander to popular opinion yet which show that there is a via alternative to the kind of politics espoused during the last forty years. So much of what has been promised this week will take a long time to absorb and digest but the return to form of the Labour party now seems palpable and I think the fall-out from Brexit will ultimately prove the downfall of the current government within the next 12 months. Corbyn is now beginning to seem not only credible and almost visionary - nothing probably not thought possible throughout the summer.

          One subject which caught my eye was his comments regarding ear-marking an eye-watering £160 million to educate kids with the arts. For a long, long while, this has been seen as money being unnecessarily squandered but it is interesting that Labour now seem to be taking a different tack. I am interested in this because I feel that art is important but, to paraphrase George Orwell, some art is more important than others. I experienced the woeful results of Thatcher's interference and meddling with school funding in the 1980s when I was at school but I think she also allowed a culture to germinate where the arts became increasingly institutionalised. It will be interesting to see if all this money will be spent on arts education in a coordinated and structured maner and how music and especially jazz might fair in this divvying up on revenue. I think that it is great that music education should receive more funding and think that this can only be recommended however I am dead against the institutionalisation of jazz. Given Corbyn's love of Elvis, I think jazz might be pretty far off his radar but the sums of money being promised might be well spent in giving kids a broader and more practical musical education denied by cuts which would allow the music to flourish. I would hate to see official jazz courses and the music become formalised but I think more should be done at "street level" to help the music at grass roots so that the education establishments do not see all of whatever money would be promised.

          Does jazz education really need funding or is it better to let the music evolve organically? Will it suffer by potentially being given a crutch to lean on as has been the case in Holland (not sure if it is still the case but I recall reading an article on a website about Dutch government funding actually subsidising a lot of musicians deemed by the American commentator to be mediocre.) Would a socialist government have an agenda as to how the money is spent on arts education and is it likely that jazz will continue to be something or a poor relation in the arts world and how will external sponsorship of the arts fit in to a potential Labour government's manifesto? I don't ever recall any other political party bringing arts funding or at least financing arts education in to part of it's agenda to seem a credible party of government. In this respect, Corbyn is truly offering a "new politics" but I wonder if arts funding is likely to register with joe public when it comes to putting a tick in the box. Surely anyone with an interest in the arts and wants to see the arts taken more seriously must now be able to put faith in the fact that a government might at last took beyond funding the opera!!
          Hello Ian,

          Fruedian slip eh! "ass Labour leader"

          Comment

          • Bryn
            Banned
            • Mar 2007
            • 24688

            #6
            Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
            I see that the hapless banana eating former Blue Labour minister has now made his jazz debut on an album by Ted Nash:-

            http://https://www.allaboutjazz.com/...n-bilawsky.php

            Nice to see Delfeayo Marsalis doing a nice line in anti-Trump irony too.

            Can't get your link to work.

            Comment

            • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 4316

              #7
              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
              Can't get your link to work.
              ...."Saxophonist TED NASH who
              transforms key moments from historic speeches – as read by influential figures from the worlds of arts, politics and sports – into an emotionally affecting suite of modern jazz.

              Featured Guests are GLENN CLOSE reading Aung Sun Suu Kyi • DEEPAK CHOPRA reading Jawaharlal Nehru • ANDREW YOUNG reading Nelson Mandela • JOE LIEBERMAN reading John F. Kennedy • SAM WATERSTON reading Lyndon B. Johnson • DOUGLAS BRINKLEY reading Ronald Reagan • WILLIAM VANDEN HEUVEL reading Franklin Delano Roosevelt • DAVID MILIBAND reading Winston Churchill and special musical guest WYNTON MARSALIS."

              Who'd have thought! "Mili digs Winnie - track 6"

              BTW, (not many people know"# 193) the late left wing Oxford Uni economics and stats Prof, Andrew Glyn, who personally tutored both Dave and Ed Mili to little effect, was a very fine amateur jazz pianist and a Bill Evans devotee.

              BN.
              Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; 02-10-16, 11:21.

              Comment

              • Serial_Apologist
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 37851

                #8
                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                Can't get your link to work.
                Ian always introduces too many https when quoting links - repetition compulsion, is my guess...

                Comment

                • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 4316

                  #9
                  As Memphis Slim said about Little Richard's pianism, "he can only play one note and he's afraid to stop!".

                  Comment

                  • Old Grumpy
                    Full Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 3652

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                    Ian always introduces too many https when quoting links - repetition compulsion, is my guess...
                    Perhaps cos the box to create a link is pre-populated with http:// - copying and pasting a full link from a website creates the double http. I've nearly done it myself several times.

                    OG

                    Comment

                    • Serial_Apologist
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 37851

                      #11
                      Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                      As Memphis Slim said about Little Richard's pianism, "he can only play one note and he's afraid to stop!".
                      Memphis Slim told a lovely story on an LP I used to have - (lent it out, never got it back) - about Clear Waters, Muddy's son(?), going into a hamburger joint, some time back in the 1960s. "'Gimme a hamburger', he orders to the waiter. 'Sorry kid, we don't serve negroes' replies the waiter. 'Oh that's okay' says the lad, 'cos I don't eat 'em'".

                      Comment

                      • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 4316

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                        Memphis Slim told a lovely story on an LP I used to have - (lent it out, never got it back) - about Clear Waters, Muddy's son(?), going into a hamburger joint, some time back in the 1960s. "'Gimme a hamburger', he orders to the waiter. 'Sorry kid, we don't serve negroes' replies the waiter. 'Oh that's okay' says the lad, 'cos I don't eat 'em'".
                        I had that album! Was it on Folkways? Memphis Slim with Willie Dixon and Jump Jackson. There was a great uptempo track on it, Leaving Town, you know I'm Harlem Bound. Slim became a real cultural figure in Paris, French honours, the lot.

                        BN.

                        Comment

                        • Serial_Apologist
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 37851

                          #13
                          Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                          I had that album! Was it on Folkways? Memphis Slim with Willie Dixon and Jump Jackson. There was a great uptempo track on it, Leaving Town, you know I'm Harlem Bound. Slim became a real cultural figure in Paris, French honours, the lot.

                          BN.
                          No I don't think so. Memphis Slim probably told the same yarns time and time again. This was a solo album - no one else, just Memphis, rambling on reminiscently while improvising over slow blues changes, and yes, hammering away at single notes the way he did - and ever so often breaking into a preannounced faster boogie - "Chicago, the home of the blues... the new home, that is..." etc, etc. I forget the title now.

                          Comment

                          • Ian Thumwood
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 4242

                            #14
                            I saw Magic Slim & the Teardrops at Vienne a couple of times and was really impressed by his authentic approach to playing Blues. He was a real character and, I suppose , a bit non-pc with his lyrics about being a lady's man. At least when I saw Buddy Guy play the last time he commented about the lyrics about picking up a girl who was "sweet sixteen" and joked that he didn't write them. Every now and again I love listening to blues but, whilst the early artists were the original appeal, I think that some of the greats I have seen such as B B King, Buddy Guy, Little Ed, Magic Slim, Taj Muhal, Eric Bibb, Robert Cray and Keb Mo' really put on an excellent live show. I still would say that the best ever performance I have seen from a showmanship perspective was B.B king who just carried a massive aura about him. It is funny reading some of Bluesnik's comments about te likes of Memphis Slim but it is worthwhile commenting that blues did suddenly vanish in the 1960s and are still continuing today. Some acts like Robert Cray are probably pretty "FM friendly" but there are plenty around who are authentic such as Linsey Alexander or Lucky Peterson who seems to traverse blues and jazz with the same ease as a lot of r n' B artists in the late 1940's.

                            The thing that I like about blues is that you can frequently jump in and listen to a musician you know nothing about and not be disappointed. I don't think it has the "sound of surprise" element of jazz but with artists like Beth Hart , Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks there is also an element where the music bleeds over in to more commercial / rock fields and still sounds terrific. I can understand why the limes of Memphis Slim might be revered in France but the blues have not gone away and I still feel there is plenty left to enjoy.



                            There seems to be a number of Blues musicians called "Slim" whereas in jazz they tend to be called "Fats."

                            Comment

                            • Ian Thumwood
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 4242

                              #15
                              Bluesnik

                              I think that you will appreciate this music. Alexander was a new name to me but I struggled to stop playing his CD in my car when it first arrived in the post. Absolutely brilliant:-



                              Comment

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