JL Phineas Newborn Jr

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

don't misunderestimate Al Haig Ian .... he could play the piano

i won't argue about John Lewis but will confess to loving every note he ever played ... his touch and swing do it for me every time, in the MJQ, in trio and solo, and in his ensembles, and in his Bach albums ...

[Serial_Apologist]

John Lewis was in some ways a follow-on from Count Basie. He made a little go a long way.

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum / SA

This is more the "sound " of Al Haig I had in mind. Don't get me wrong, I very much like this but I don't thing there is anything particularly special about it. Very much straight ahead "Bebop" of the era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz-ds1bewsc&feature=related

The track "Lament" is wonderful and i much prefer to hear a pianist play solo like this as is allows him to express himself more freely than with a trio. Odd listening and hearing other styles like the odd bit of stride as well as the over-bearing influence of the great Bud Powell.

John Lewis was more of an "arranger's piano" and he had a wonderfully concise style of playing and probably more aware of counterpoint than any of his contemporaries. However, I feel that there was more interest within Newborn's playing. In this more simplistic style, I would suggest that one of the masters was Sonny Clark as he could swing improvised lines which had a wondefully ironic kind of approach. Again, it boils down to the ability to swing and I think Clark was a master of this. I love the logic within his solo's and the kind of dry sense of humour.

I don't think this is comparable with Phineas Newborn although I think that these Al Haig tracks are nice - very neat and tidy. I would welcome a JL on Al Haig (another blank space in my jazz education) but , as my piano teacher used to say about Errol Garner, Newborn could really swing and this ability alone marks him out as a great player. Some of those tracks yesterday showed him tearing up the keyboard. Perhaps the ability to swing is over-looked these days ?

I am sure that I have said this before, that the history of jazz piano for me isn't a development of ever increasing sophistication that you find with so many of the horn instruments. Historically, it started off pretty sophisticated to begin with and I would suggest that (as an aggregate) the technical prowess of pianists between 1910-1945 was probably in excess of the kind of jazz piano played from 45-55 and maybe a little later. Newborn perhaps represents someone with a technique that (with the exceptionion of Powell or Tristano ) had been lost for a decade. For me, this makes jazz piano really special. I love the fact that you can find some incredible gems within the byways of jazz as is the case of Phineas Newborn.

Fair enough, looking back from 2011 it is an easy game to write off heroes from earlier generations and I think Herbie Hancock is a musician who would make most other pianists look bad in comparison! However, if you imagine that jazz piano suddently stopped around 1960, I think that you would have to say that Newborn was a sginificant player based on yesterday's programme. For me, he is all the things you wanted Peterson to have been but wasn't. As i said, you can't argue with the amount of swing on those records.

[Serial_Apologist]

I would suggest that (as an aggregate) the technical prowess of pianists between 1910-1945 was probably in excess of the kind of jazz piano played from 45-55 and maybe a little later.

Tatum was still playing pretty well in 1955 Ian. But I guess you'd exclude him and Powell from your sweeping statement here. Lest it be forgot Bud Powell could play a pretty fine stride, as in "The Last Time I Saw Paris" from 1951. It may sound rough in some ways - but so of course did Thelonious. I must say I prefer that roughness - Tatum apart

Just now I was tempted to try and find a google of Bud playing that tune, but in the past I've lost the message I was writing by doing that. I'll try in a mo.

Someone from that era so far not mentioned is Duke Jordan, whom I always rather liked with Clifford Brown. "Jordu" is a right bar steward of a tune to improvise on, I find - the bridge section, anyway.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'd forgotten my computer sound is out, so not knowing how many takes Bud did of this tune, hope this is the right one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OSv-oVKLqY

My links seldom work, but here goes...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

thanks for the Bud Powell S_A [the link works for me] .... when he breaks into the Paris tune he swings [not doing that for me on the first fast whirlwind, different kind of pulse] ... i am not sure that i find Newborn a swinging pianist, full of tricks with the basic pulse ok, but he is not defining it and i think his time and swing is just ordinary ... mechanical even .... whereas both Basie and Lewis [a sympathetic point S_A, i have always seen the one as the successor to the other in that concise and limpid style] can play three notes and define a whole space of time and essence of syncopation which i find compelling ...

eg MJQ

eg Basie

the competition i mentioned above:

a stunning performance from Bill Evans [not to forget one of the show's hosts Billy Taylor, but from 08.30 Evans stuns ...

Ahmad's blues oh Israel Crosby!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Interesting programme and interesting to read the mix of comments above, esp Ian, who as a pianist, I suspected would either love or hate this stuff.

Frankly, my take was that with all that (obvious, in your face, just so you don't forget) technique, just how "corny" PN could often sound. I remember him from a couple of LPs in the '60s as being more convincing. But he left me cold in this prog. My attention was on the supporting players - Roy Haynes is just brilliant. Ditto Frank Butler and Elvin.

The left hand blues track was nice ("Sermon"?) but wasn't that around the time Phineas injured his right hand and hence slowed down? But not for me, and I can think of a dozen pianists I would rather listen to. St.Elmo?

BN.

BTW Calvin Newborn said Phineas was kicked off the first BB King session (they got Ike Turner in to cover) for playing "too much piano" and arguing with his dad! (PN snr. on drums) who "slapped him upside his head".

"They fek you up, your drummer dads."