JL Phineas Newborn Jr

[MarkG]

Really looking forward to this one. By coincidence I was just considering putting pen to paper as I can't remember hearing this musician on R3 before. Technically brilliant it seems that his career was curtailed by mental health problems. And Brian Priestley is a knowledgable guest as well.

[Ian Thumwood]

Mark

I agree. Newborn is one of those players who had an amazing reputation but seems a forgotten figure nowadays. I am not convinced I have ever heard anything by him either and know nothing about his records. When I went on a jazz workshop many years ago someone mentioned what a great pianist he was although someone else once described him to me as being a technically brilliant player but somewhat cold and uninvolving in the manner of Oscar Peterson. By and large, Newborn is one of those musicians who seems to be highly praised by other musicians but who have unfortunately faded into obscurity. I await the particular programme with interest - JL always works more for me when it comes to introducing unfamiliar aspects of the music and I expect this to be no acception.

[MarkG]

Oscar Peterson seems to be a frequent comparison. His name was actually introduced to me by someone who is also an OP and Tatum fan.

[MarkG]

My rather old copy of the Penguin Guide to Jazz suggests that his best work is on Teddy Edwards/Howard McGhee's Together Again and Howard McGhee's Maggies Back in Town.

[gurnemanz]

Thanks for pointing to this programme. I only heard of Phineas Newborn Jr. recently when I got a jazz piano compilation box with a couple of tracks by him, Back Home and Overtime, which I have just listened to again - good stuff. He plays in a trio with his brother on guitar, who is described online as “guitar legend Calvin Newborn: He played on B.B. King’s first recordings, taught Elvis how to dance…” Born in 1933, he is still around and recorded a new LP in 2005.

http://calvinnewborn.bandcamp.com/

[rubbernecker]

Here are three things about Phineas Newborn Jr which may be of interest :

1) His first name is pronounced fine-ass;
2) On the introduction to Lush Life on World of Piano he is playing (rather insensitively, imo) the slow movement of Ravel's Sonatine;
3) Probably the best Newborn album is We Three in which Roy Haynes is credited as leader. (Chambers is on bass).

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Sugar Ray from We Three in '58

and playing fast on Oleo in '60


...for me he is a great pianist who plays predictable jazz .... and definitely not one of the three greatest jazz pianists as L Feather has it in this wicki article

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Looking forward to it. In fact a progarmme on that Memphis mafia would be cool. Frank Strozier, Booker Little, George Coleman, Hank Crawford etc. BTW Newborn was on the sessions for some of the (very) early BB King records but was "let go" for overplaying!

BN.

[MarkG]

Thanks for all your comments. Here is the list of tracks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011j6gd

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

...Memphis

the pianist was in danger of being forgotten by most of the jazz world during his last decade. Spending most of his time in Memphis, he was an inspiration to many younger pianists including James Williams, Harold Mabern, Mulgrew Miller, Donald Brown, and Geoff Keezer, who after Newborn's death would dedicate their work as the Contemporary Piano Ensemble to him.

n 1990, James Williams and three fellow pianists (Harold Mabern, Mulgrew Miller, and Geoff Keezer) paid tribute to Phineas Newborn on a CD on which they recorded two trio numbers apiece, plus a version of "It Don't Mean a Thing," where the four players took turns on one piano. At the 1991 Montreal Jazz Festival, the same pianists performed together, this time on four pianos. With the addition of Donald Brown as their fifth pianist (although they continued taking turns on four pianos, with one player sitting out), bassist Christian McBride, and drummer Tony Reedus, the Contemporary Piano Ensemble was born. They recorded a set for DIW/Columbia in 1993 and the following year played concerts in 20 cities.

all music guide

we will be hearing Mr Keezer on Monday ...


Newborn had two or three things not in his favour ... in the late fifties Bill Evans and Ahmad Jamal appeared on the scene, both virtuosi and different pianists and much more hip around NYC than an essentially backward looking pianist [the Tatum/Peterson thing] .... his father's bad advice, who knows what college might have led him to in musical expression ..... and the jazz market was in decline by 1960 ... whatever else may have afflicted him personally

interesting programme thanks Alyn .... my own faves are the We Three with Haynes, Harlem Blues and the Together Again with Edwards and McGee

[Ian Thumwood]

"Jazz library" is always more interesting for me when it concerns itself with a musician about whom I had hitherto been ignorant. I would have to say that this was one of the best programmes for ages. The music was terrific although I felt the "elastic band" sound of the bass marred the last track. My only grumble was that too much of the music was cut off at the point when the music really started to groove.
There were some stonking records chosen but the "Harlem Blues" with Elvin Jones was sensational. Very tempted by this CD.

It is interesting to hear this music which comes from an earlier jazz piano tradition. Sometimes I feel that the innovations created by Bud Powell caused a major schism in the jazz piano as the technical brilliance of the musicians from the 20's, 30's and 40's seems to be sacrificed for rhythmic freedom but wasn't quite harmonically adventurous enough to be as interesting as the developments spearheaded by Herbie Hancock. McCoy Tyner, Paul Bley or Andrew Hill later on. There are players from the 50's I like Wynton Kelly , Hank Jones or Ahmed Jamal who I have enjoyed in the past but the instrument became a far more interesting jazz vehicle in the 60's to my ears. Sometimes the jazz piano of the fifties seemed to drift towards cocktail music or can sound a bit conservative to contemporary ears. Personally, the most interesting jazz pianists of the 40's and 50's seem to fall into two camps which would be "eccentrics" (Monk, Nichols, Tristano, Twardzick, Byard) and "hard swingers" such as Powell or Hampton Hawes. Both camps are compelling. On the exprience of this afternoon's programme, Newborn definately fits in the second category. In fact, I would have to say that he is one of the hard-swinging painists I've heard - there must have been smoke coming off the keyboard on some of the tracks chosen. I love the fact that he had such a strong left hand and whilst his technique and style does owe something to Oscar Peterson, the evidence presented suggested he could use it to much more devastating effect than the Canadian. The energy of the music , in my opinion, made the music impossible not to like and I think the hype of the time was justified even if it presented problems for his career later on. Yes, I can see similarities with Peterson, Garner and Shearing but there was a directness about this music which I found far more exciting. I was supposed to be tidying up the house this afternoon but gave up in the end as I just wanted to listed to the music. I really enjoyed this music.

[MarkG]

Really enjoyed the programme. Some astounding playing. I agree that We Three, Together Again and Harlem Blues stood out. There was also an interesting DVD of PN on Jazz Scene USA with Oscar Brown Jr which was available at one time. Perhaps he didn't have the right personality for superstardom?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

quite possibly MarkG but chance and circumstance are powerful factors in all lives ... i have to climb over some prejudices to get Newborn and the prog was a great help, but he still does not equate to a great artist for me, neither does Oscar Peterson ... but certainly great pianists ...from an earlier generation i have similar issues with Hank Jones but not Tommy Flanagan ... can't really say why ... and i do find Tatum's brilliance wearing .... but not Bud Powell's [any one dig Al Haig?]

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

The thing with jazz piano is that you have to treat it as if it has it's own identity and standards by which it should be judged. There is a lot of music to take in with jazz piano. I agree with you about Oscar Peterson (always sounds best when unaccompanied, I think) and find Tatum particularly strange insofar as I feel he is playing variations a lot of the time as opposed to a more direct, improvised line. Put Peterson in a group and the amount of technique he has at his disposal could smother the front line and take the edge out of an ensemble. I didn't feel that this was the case with Newborn - i was just blown away by the energy in those performances. I grant you that he was not an innovator or a particularly original performer, but yesterday's programme introduced me to someone who I felt was very, very impressive.

The other names you mention are intriguing. Tommy Flanagan and Hank Jones are two pianists who I feel are taken for granted and tend to bet over-looked. Having heard Jones perform in person, I must admit that I was wholly convinced by his succinct style of playing where he didn' seem to waste a note. I love the grace and poiase within his playing even if his attack wasn't particularly aggressive or hard hitting. The first album with Lovano is a joy. His touch was emaculate and , to me, hearing in concert was like watching a master-craftsman at work. Al Haig is typical of the bebop piano tradition and, although I haven't heard a great deal of his work, think that he was like a second rate Bud Powell . Other than Powell, it is difficult to get too excited by the first Be-bop pianists and even someone with the intelligence of John Lewis leaves me under-whelmed. I haven't listened to these players in detail as I feel that they were pioneers trying to come to terms with the new principles of jazz piano as laid down by Bud Powell who was just head and shoulders abov everyone else. The archetypal be-bop player could be stereotyped by the right hand providing the improvised line whilst the left tends to be playing "shells" although close analysis will probably show that there is more to the better player's style. Newborn , as demonstrated, had equal dexterity with both hands and I felt this made him far more of an interesting listening experience.

The thing that is getting over-looked in this debate was how , by the 1950's, Modern Jazz piano had established itself so much as to make it commercially viable "popular" element of music. You only have to look at the success of the likes of Peterson, Hank Jones, Ahmed Jamal, Dave Brubeck, Errol Garner and George Shearing to appreciate this. By the mid-fifties, Modern Jazz piano had evolved sufficiently so that pioneers like Haig or Joe Albany quickly got over-looked. Even in more "hardcore " jazz groups like Miles', there were pianists like Red Garland and Wnyton Kelly who were playing at a higher level than many of the pianists you find on Charlie Parker's records for instance. Within ten years, modern Jazz piano really started to find it's feet albeit I think the real strides with the instrument were made in the 1960's albeit this was at the expense of it's popular following. I suppose that Keith Jarrett is probably the last jazz pianist to enjoy a reputation beyond the music's core fan base although Melhdau probably runs him pretty close.

What the programme demonstrated to me was that there are some particularly interesting pianists in the histroy of jazz who have been over-looked and that , in instances like Newborn, they are clearly worth exploring.

[Serial_Apologist]

Herbie Hancock, Ian?

Remembering how impressed I was by Phineas as a 15-year old - all that technique! - with the jaded wisdom of age under my belt (sic) I didn't notice anything - *musically* - to differentiate him from any of the better-endowed hard bop pianists of the 1950s. It's difficult to undo the possibilities one has discovered in later listening to retrieve the "innocent ear", I find.

S-A