Locke's Stock but No Smoking Barrelhausen

[Serial_Apologist]

Sat 30 July
4.00 Jazz Record Requests
Alyn Shipton with the full spectrum of jazz, including a celebration of trumpeter Keyon Harrold's contributions to the Miles Davis biopic Miles Ahead (2015), directed by and starring Don Cheadle.

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog

5.00 Jazz Line-Up
Julian Joseph presents a performance by American vibraphonist Joe Locke and his quartet, recorded in late June on the Jazz Line-Up stage at the Glasgow Jazz Festival. Locke has collaborated with a wide range of musicians, from Dizzy Gillespie to the Beastie Boys. And in Inside the Mind, multi-instrumentalist Jacob Collier shares his love of technology and the Beach Boys and discusses the moment producer and jazz giant Quincy Jones first made contact with him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m4b6c

Note that Geoffrey's usual spot has been obliterated by Womad. And in case they dropped off, the lucky b*ggers have their programme repeated on Sunday night. Hi there, fellow folkies!

Monday 1 August
11.00 Jazz Now

Soweto Kinch presents a concert by Dave Holland's trio, recorded on 24 June and the last jazz concert to be performed at the Adrian Boult Hall in Birmingham before it's planned demolition

The hall has Boulted - overdosed on Beechams. (I've waited years for somewhere to crack that one).
Dave H's trio has drummer Nate Smith, and our very own Stan Sulzmann on saxophonics.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07jxrcy

And to make up for any Geoffrey Smith withdrawal symptoms (maybe):

Fri 5 Aug
10.15 BBC Proms
From the Royal Albert Hall, the National Youth Jazz Orchestra of Scotland perform songs by Duke Ellington made popular by Frank Sinatra, the Beatles, Carole King and others alongside saxophonist Iain Ballamy and singer Liane Carroll. Presented by Andrew McGregor. Iain Ballamy (saxophone), Liane Carroll (piano/vocals), National Youth Jazz Orchestra of Scotland, Malcolm Edmonstone (piano), conductor Andrew Bain.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Dave Holland in minimalist mode looks good? Avec Stan and Nate? Will try to stay awake for that with copious coffee, dozens of Dexedrine, and the cat with the hatpin.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

There are some fascinating tracks on JRR. "Waiting for Benny" is the track that my Dad said was instrumental in getting him in to jazz after he heard it played on the radio. It is roughly a jam on "A smooth one" but features the BG septet minus the leader who was alleged to have turned up late. I think it is a staggering piece of music and captures the informal nature of what must have been played in the jazz clubs around New York at the time and when be-bop was starting to emerge. Christian is a revelation on this record but Cootie William's trumpet is played in marked contrast to his more familiar role with Ellington and, in some respects, seems liberated within Goodman's group. I've been looking at Goodman's music a bit over the last month and just think that his work in the early 40's is far more interesting than the more celebrated stuff from the late 1930's, as good as that is. Nice to see someone requesting Sam Morgan's excellent band too.

Not too sure what to think about Jacob Collier. I think he is incredibly talented and probably a bit too sophisticated to jump on the bandwagon of the likes of Jamie Cullum. Having heard him perform last month, I think his music does fascinate but I was left wondering whether of not the technology he is using is as much the star of the act as himself. It will be difficult to see where his music will develop next as he seems to have laid everything out on the table on this first album. However, the results are pretty sophisticated even if I can anticipate the majority of people posting here probably being hostile.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

There are some fascinating tracks on JRR. "Waiting for Benny" is the track that my Dad said was instrumental in getting him in to jazz after he heard it played on the radio. It is roughly a jam on "A smooth one" but features the BG septet minus the leader who was alleged to have turned up late. I think it is a staggering piece of music and captures the informal nature of what must have been played in the jazz clubs around New York at the time and when be-bop was starting to emerge. Christian is a revelation on this record but Cootie William's trumpet is played in marked contrast to his more familiar role with Ellington and, in some respects, seems liberated within Goodman's group. I've been looking at Goodman's music a bit over the last month and just think that his work in the early 40's is far more interesting than the more celebrated stuff from the late 1930's, as good as that is. Nice to see someone requesting Sam Morgan's excellent band too.

Not too sure what to think about Jacob Collier. I think he is incredibly talented and probably a bit too sophisticated to jump on the bandwagon of the likes of Jamie Cullum. Having heard him perform last month, I think his music does fascinate but I was left wondering whether of not the technology he is using is as much the star of the act as himself. It will be difficult to see where his music will develop next as he seems to have laid everything out on the table on this first album. However, the results are pretty sophisticated even if I can anticipate the majority of people posting here probably being hostile.

Hey Tina Brooks playing "Heaven's Sakes".... I requested this years ago on JRR with Geoff Smith. Good to see my sophisticated tastes are being carried on.

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Hey Tina Brooks playing "Heaven's Sakes".... I requested this years ago on JRR with Geoff Smith. Good to see my sophisticated tastes are being carried on.

BN.

Bluesnik's epitaph!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Bluesnik's epitaph!

Hey, let's not rush things!

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Hey, let's not rush things!

BN.

Mingus (in family chat captured on Joni's tribute album): "Hey man, you tryin' to hurry me along?"

Satie (quoted in John Cage's book "Silence"): "Flowers? Dear lady, it's too soon!".

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Mingus (in family chat captured on Joni's tribute album): "Hey man, you tryin' to hurry me along?"

Satie (quoted in John Cage's book "Silence"): "Flowers? Dear lady, it's too soon!".

My favorite death bed gasp is Chekhov's: "A priest? No, open more champagne!"

Best "Old Bolshevik" joke...Do you know what Mayakovsky's very last words were before he committed suicide? He shouted, "Comrades, please don't shoot!"

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

I quite liked the Joe Locke set but felt that the Warren Wolf quartet that shared the same line up sounded a bit more adventurous. Locke is a bit of revered figure amongst fans and critics and I do feel that he has bags of technique. I love the sound of vibes although feel that the instrument is almost b-polar insofar that there are times when it sounds really pretty, even at it's coolest and other times when it seems extremely strident. It is fascinating that the vibes seem so ingrained with atonal music in the Classical field whereas, at it's absolute worst, there is a candy-floss element with the instrument that sometimes manifests itself in jazz. This is particularly the case with players like Cal Tjader and Gary Burton , the later being particularly guilty of making the instrument sound too beautiful.

For me, the ghost of Lionel Hampton looms large over the instrument, despite the fact that so many jazz players now seem inclined to consider that year zero with the vibraphone started with Milt Jackson. Players like Red Norvo seem totally air-brushed out of the history of the instrument. I find Jackson a curious player as he is often compelling outside of the MTQ whereas John Lewis' influence really means that you have to pay attention to the counterpoint to appreciate this group. I am not a massive fan of the MJQ albeit there are more recent albums like the Ellington tribute which are pure class. Jackson is probably the victim of the fact that most practitioners on this instrument are far more technically equipped. I feel the same about a lot of "early" electric guitar players with the exception of Charlie Christian. These days it seems that Bobby Hutchison is the point of reference for so many players but I find that he is no longer the uncompromising avant garde player who graced so many Blue Note records. The Blue Note records by Hill, McLean Hutchison, etc are amongst the best this label produced but his recent efforts are surprisingly mainstream like so many players from that generation. Locke is interesting but I have never been impressed by him as much as Steve Nelson whose work with Dave Holland seemed to open up more possibilities for the instrument.

It was quite useful hearing this session this evening as I had been listening to Jason Adasiewicz this morning. I don't think he has the technique of Locke and he certainly isn't as tidy a player but , for me, AD seems far more in keeping with what Hutchison was doing in the 1960's. Even if he lacks Locke's polish, there is that grit within the Chicagoan's playing that I think marks out all the best jazz. In some respects you might criticise AD for not being "contemporary" yet I feel that there is an aggression with his playing, despite his "outside" credentials, that is shared with Lionel Hampton. AD may use extended techniques by producing drones on his instrument as well as rattling, percussive sounds but the music can never be considered to be too pretty and there is still a level of masculinity in his ballad playing which is a through-back to the uncompromising heyday of jazz in the mid 60's. It is an interesting scenario. I like Locke's playing and you certainly feel that he has brought a highly technical prowess to the music as well as a degree of sophistication with the writing yet if you consider the more musical and less show-boating side of Lionel Hampton and the records Hutchison produced for Blue Note in the 1960s as the more authentic axis of the vibraphone in jazz, for me Adasiesicz is the more compelling musician. Perhaps someone more suited to the more savvy "Jazz Now" that startling the listeners on "Jazz Line up " - especially after JRR.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

A pity JLU didn't give the full Locke gig rather than that annoying kid banging on about his mum, room and "sounds". At his age I was working eighteen hour nights down the pit and still chopping wood for the next village. JLU is an odd magazine mix, it reminds me of Breakfast TV and that " ain't good".

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

I agree. Collier is interesting as he has bags of talent and is fortunate to have a partner who is able to devise the software necessary to harmonise the vocals through his keyboard. As a solo voice, I wasn't too impressed either on JLU or when I heard him in concert but, in these multi-media times, Collier's music is filling a niche. I can't see how this project will evolve and how he will build a career out of this approach. It does raise some interesting questions about the employment of technology in making jazz yet the result is a bit shallow irrespective of the fact that he can play piano, bass, drums and sing to a very high standard. I don't mind the results but they are not on a par with the stuff Locke performed.

JLU is a curious blend of styles. Sometimes it gets it right but it is fascinating how it "gets" the current zeitgeist in a fashion that is almost parallel to how people putting together jazz festival now think. Generally, the best advice is to ignore the hype but the sad fact is that a younger audience is more likely to want to check out Jacob Collier than Sonny Rollins. Spending the first half of July in Vienne and talking to people as well as hearing other conversations, the younger audience for jazz is really switched on to this kind of stuff . I was intrigued to hear how many times Snarky Puppy were name checked - to my ears they just sound like a superior backing band for pop acts as opposed to anything genuinely to do with jazz. The likes of Joe Locke almost sound anachronistic , no matter how sophisticated and you get the feeling that the 2010s are mirroring the 1970s with fusion acts being more popular , mainstream jazz being marginalised and the "real" hard-hitting stuff being associated with the avant garde.

[Serial_Apologist]

Collier's music is filling a niche. I can't see how this project will evolve and how he will build a career out of this approach. It does raise some interesting questions about the employment of technology in making jazz yet the result is a bit shallow irrespective of the fact that he can play piano, bass, drums and sing to a very high standard. I don't mind the results but they are not on a par with the stuff Locke performed.

I was intrigued at one point in his "talk", when he mentined having been bowled over by hearing Benjamin Britten's "The Turn of the Screw". Britten composed that opera in 1954, and I am reminded just how long the time gap still is for some young jazz musicians between what was happening 60 years ago, and what might be happening now, were modern classical composers regularly pushing boundaries the way they were when the free jazz people were picking up on electronics to such an extent in the late 1960s that people like Cornelius Cardew were getting creatively involved with them: what was almost ripe to have happened a decade before that, when John Lewis, Eric Dolphy, Bill Evans and Ornette were collaborating with Gunther Schuller. What instead seems to have happened is that though it would be disingenuous to claim that the post-serial avant-garde has dried up - people such as Richard Barrett and Evan Parker are working together across the boundaries - they seem to form a minority, whereas when I was in my teens and 20s every new work seemed to have something fresh to offer, even by minor figures. On the other hand it's good to note people like Laura Jurd working at the free end, because I believe this is where any push forward will come from - and they seem to realise it - rather than from the compositional side, which from the perspective of Joe Locke, and the so many present-generation players here and in the US idiomatically operating in his area, hasn't moved on much from the early 1970s ECM/aestheticised jazz approach. At most one hears rhythmically highly complex charts forcing improvisers to come up to their benchmark, rather than improvisation leading the way. But I guess that's my prejudice saying nothing will move forward until jazz regains its voice of opposition and resistance: and god, doesn't it need it right now?

[Ian Thumwood]

Things move on and the serialist stuff is of it's time. I don't quite agree with you as I feel composition is where jazz is evolving. You re correct about the influence of ECM but this is only a fraction of the picture and it is the composers and writers who are making the changes at the moment. However, it is very much the more progressive element that sounds to have got the music absolutely nailed at the moment. There was an article on one of the wbesites last week about younger players writing stuff with complex time signatures but not quite getting the essence of jazz or really understanding the heritage. The broader problem is that exceptional technique is a given and the record companies / agents will find the likes of Collier appealing as he is young and has nothing to do with the heritage of the music. My week in France really helped give me an appreciation of what younger fans are in to and Collier fits the bill. I am not surprised that Bluesnik is sceptical but a twenty something today will have little awareness / interest of any heritage from 20's to 60's let alone the 1980s which will probably seem remote! Albums like Glasper's "Black Radio" are the kind of things that sell now. Listening to Jarrett's trio this week made me think that this wasn't quite heralding in a new esthetic in the 1980s but more like the last hurrah of the piano trio as a serious format. The same can be said for Mehldau.

The whole thing about music being "progressive" really is a generational thing. The kind of stuff that Classical composers were producing post-war got shunted aside by the likes of Reich and Adams in the 70's and 80's. Third Stream ideas seems pretty dated now - what composer worth his salt isn't influenced /aware of Western Classical composition. It is an intriguing time as musicians I listened to in the 1980s are now the elder statesmen of jazz (if they are still alive) and the likes of Mehldau, Dave Holland, Christian McBride, Wynton Marsalis, Kenny Garrett, David Murray, Bill Frisell all have careers that stretch back at lest twenty five years. Their careers have been about twice / three times as long as someone like Tina Brooks!! Players like Evan Parker are now part of the furniture and what once startled, is now an accepted part of the canon. Wynton's career has gone on the same length of time as it took Miles to go from be-bop with Charlie Parker up until he emerged from retirement in the early 1980s!! Small wonder that the innovations of the 50's and 60's seem as remote today as King Oliver as the younger generation see innovation as meaning a nifty bit of computer programming that sets one voice in to complex harmonies through chords played on a keyboard. The are very different times indeed.

[Quarky]

but the sad fact is that a younger audience is more likely to want to check out Jacob Collier than Sonny Rollins. Spending the first half of July in Vienne and talking to people as well as hearing other conversations, the younger audience for jazz is really switched on to this kind of stuff . I was intrigued to hear how many times Snarky Puppy were name checked - to my ears they just sound like a superior backing band for pop acts as opposed to anything genuinely to do with jazz.

A very interesting discussion, and I think Ian has hit several nails on the head simultaneously.

Just to observe that "the younger audience for jazz" ought to include any newcomers to Jazz music, or people wanting to broaden their acquaintance with Jazz. I recall as a youngster, I was knocked out by Les Double Six and Swingle Singers - nowadays they seem old-hat.

And I can't help feeling Jazz has given itself a stone to roll up a mountain side, without ever getting to the top, by the need to be "progressive". Good music does not need to progress anywhere.

[Ian Thumwood]

And I can't help feeling Jazz has given itself a stone to roll up a mountain side, without ever getting to the top, by the need to be "progressive". Good music does not need to progress anywhere.

This is true to some extent and there is always the solid argument that, at least until the advent of be-bop, jazz was popular music. I am not sure that this wholly captures the problem with attracting a younger audience. The problem is more complex and otherwise you would have thought that more accessible styles of jazz may have maintained a following amongst a younger demographic. .

A big issue for me is that most of the practitioners are not young. When I was getting in to contemporary jazz in the 1980's, most of the more progressive players that I admired were then in their late thirties or early forties. Most of these players would be coming up for retirement if they were in an ordinary job! This is why the likes of Collier appeal. It is also really interesting just how much "going back to the roots" these days seems to relate to 1960s and 70s. The likes of Steve Wonder and Bill Wither's are considered as grand masters and that whole 1970's funk vibe seems to have been adopted by loads of contemporary artists from Snarky Puppy through to Michael Kiwanucka. This is what seems to be considered "authentic" or "roots orientated."

I totally concur with SA's opinion yet the reality of the situation is that anything atonal / free is niche and is probably pretty old-hat itself. It is true to say that these innovations were swept up with the cultural milieu of the time yet they are 20th century innovations and we are in the second decade of the 21st century. For me, the best jazz today does involve freer elements as well as those musicians who possess the technical tools to really change the way that jazz deals with composition. However, for a younger audience, the "innovations" that appeal are all going to deal with issues such as the employment of computers and the use of the kind of beats now used in urban music. The latter is definitely the one element that a younger audience will consider to be innovative and of the moment. Just like free jazz reflected it's time, so these kind of grooves reflect ours. There is still plenty of mainstream stuff that can resonate with a modern, contemporary audience without the diminution of the music. Gregory Porter is ample proof of that. But, by and large, even something at cultish as 60's Blue Notes won't have the appeal that they had with the younger jazz fans in the 1980s and 90s especially when something from 2002 might be considered "old skool."