Does anybody know?

[Ian Thumwood]

"people of a certain generation"

Oi! Come owwwtside an say that whilst I sharpen me knuckles..."

Without Ronnie's in that period, what? The Dancing Slipper? He brought players over to a CLUB environment. Other than that it was Paris or Copenhagen. And provided a significant space for the '68 scene of new British jazz when he didn't need to. Some of the best musical nights of my life were spent there, he even let me in when I was 15 and "pushy"! Faults yes, but do NOT be blind to the immense achievements.

BN.

Bluesnik

Granted that Sonny Rollin's appearance at the club must have been a revelation at the time and the fact that this precipitated a roster of brilliant musicians from Miles, Oscar Peterson, Woody Herman, Sarah Vaughan, etc, etc throughout the 60's and 70's, growing up in the 80's as a young jazz fan the Scott's club was already starting to lose it's relevance. It might have clung on to pick up the generation of musicians including the likes of Loose Tubes but I don't think it has had so much relevance to jazz since his death in 1996. Not living in London I can only go by listings from magazines and other websites, but it does seem that, despite the helping hand in the late 60's avant garde scene, the more relevant / progressive contemporary acts seem to get snapped up by other clubs. Looking at the website, there are groups performing in the next three / four months that really appeal (Kenny Garrett / Wayne Escoffery / Pay Metheny , etc) but there are a staggering number of fusion acts as well as an imbalance of singers. Anything of the ilk of William Parker, AACM, Jason Adasiewizc, Joe McPhee, etc kind of stuff is absent. A lot of the bookings are probably coincide with the European festival tours whereas the gigs by Rollins back in the 1960's seem so special as he was then one of the two major tenor men of the time, at the top of his game and performing at a time when jazz gigs by musicians of that stature were a rarity.

The problem with the Scott club is that it is so tied up with the 1960's scene, even to the extent that the Krays seem an integral part of the narrative along with the crap jokes. i.e. It's reputation has gone beyond pure, musical reasons.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Bluesnik

Granted that Sonny Rollin's appearance at the club must have been a revelation at the time and the fact that this precipitated a roster of brilliant musicians from Miles, Oscar Peterson, Woody Herman, Sarah Vaughan, etc, etc throughout the 60's and 70's, growing up in the 80's as a young jazz fan the Scott's club was already starting to lose it's relevance. It might have clung on to pick up the generation of musicians including the likes of Loose Tubes but I don't think it has had so much relevance to jazz since his death in 1996. Not living in London I can only go by listings from magazines and other websites, but it does seem that, despite the helping hand in the late 60's avant garde scene, the more relevant / progressive contemporary acts seem to get snapped up by other clubs. Looking at the website, there are groups performing in the next three / four months that really appeal (Kenny Garrett / Wayne Escoffery / Pay Metheny , etc) but there are a staggering number of fusion acts as well as an imbalance of singers. Anything of the ilk of William Parker, AACM, Jason Adasiewizc, Joe McPhee, etc kind of stuff is absent. A lot of the bookings are probably coincide with the European festival tours whereas the gigs by Rollins back in the 1960's seem so special as he was then one of the two major tenor men of the time, at the top of his game and performing at a time when jazz gigs by musicians of that stature were a rarity.

The problem with the Scott club is that it is so tied up with the 1960's scene, even to the extent that the Krays seem an integral part of the narrative along with the crap jokes. i.e. It's reputation has gone beyond pure, musical reasons.

We were not talking about what Ronnie's has become - on my last and hopefully last visit, a place for drunken oafs to say they'd been there. The issue was what it was and its then importance. Don't Byas, Lucky Thompson, Dexter, Kirk, Rollins, Mobley, Silver, Evans, Montgomery, Ornette, Hubbard et al. Plus the Old Place scene which was extraordinary to be around. Still, unlike you to generalise.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

We were not talking about what Ronnie's has become - on my last and hopefully last visit, a place for drunken oafs to say they'd been there. The issue was what it was and its then importance. Don't Byas, Lucky Thompson, Dexter, Kirk, Rollins, Mobley, Silver, Evans, Montgomery, Ornette, Hubbard et al. Plus the Old Place scene which was extraordinary to be around. Still, unlike you to generalise.

BN.

If you consider that it's heyday was from between 1959 and 1975, then it's importance which you outlined during the 1960's (which I wouldn't contest) represent just over a quarter of it's existence. I suppose it is a bit like Arsene Wenger's Arsenal - revolutionary and brilliant to begin with a period of being invincible but ultimately not quite a significant as it once was.

I appreciate that many younger players have really benefitted from the support given by the club since the late sixties and that this has continued through today. However, I don't think it has enjoyed the status it had at least since the 1980's and, as you state, I wonder what proportion of the audience are now "die hard" jazz fans? It doesn't seem to enjoy the "clout" of other clubs in town these days, and if you swap the support for the "avant garde" given in the late 1960's to that which it offers to the "avant garde" of today, there is a massive gap. The names you have all rattled off are all from fifty years ago. Feel free to respond when you have acquired an appreciation of the current jazz scene.