What Jazz are you listening to now?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4129

    Stanfordian

    The Avid album combines "Quiet Kenny ", "This is the moment", "Inta something" and "Matador." The last two are the ones that are worth the money, in my opinion.



    SA

    It probably seems heretical to say this but I find Clifford Brown to be a bit boring. I don't agree that he was "safe" as his music reflected the state jazz was in at the time and I have no doubt he would have evolved in to a totally different player. Had he lived, I think that he would have developed in an entirely different direction and we would have probably have been talking about a body of "mature" work that centred around the first half of the 1960's. Listening in 2017 I would agree that the cleanliness of his timbre is a big problem and the attack is so relentless as to seem to have too little variety these days. I find it fascinating that certain characteristics in jazz go in and out of fashion and the whole solo-centric approach favoured by Clifford Brown is the anti-thesis of much of what is goin on in jazz these days. The whole, gladiatorial aspect of music that resurfaced in the 1980s is no longer quite some fashionable.

    When I first heard Clifford brown as a teenager was very impressed but he was one of those players whose appeal was quickly lost on me and he has never been someone I have returned to with enthusiasm. There is almost a machine-like perfection with his playing that doesn't seem as rewarding as someone like Dorham who was not so brash and really tried to explore his instrument more thoroughly as opposed to Brown's aggressive virtuosity. I don't find that there is sufficient variety to warrant listening to Clifford Brown as a number of other trumpet players. I much prefer Dizzy Gillespie, for example as he had a more sly way of expressing rhythm.

    It is interesting listening to jazz from the 1950's as seeing what is dated and what has stood the test of time. I feel that there was a lot in this era which was actually quite conservative and then you return to albums like the Bob Brookmeyer / Jimmy Guiffre / Jim Hall album from 1957 called "Traditionalism Re-visited" and discover a record that purported to look back upon the jazz of the 1920s in a then contemporary-fashion actually anticipates the kind of stuff Bill Frisell was doing in the 1980's. I much prefer this more thoughtful approach to jazz ( and I do not mean introspective) to the more impulsive music of the era like Clifford Brown. It is surprising to hear just how free Brookmeyer, Hall and Guiffre were and how prepared they were to push the harmony to breaking point as opposed to producing great feats of stamina.

    Where has Bluesnik been of late, by the way?

    Comment

    • Beef Oven!
      Ex-member
      • Sep 2013
      • 18147

      Comment

      • Jazzrook
        Full Member
        • Mar 2011
        • 3061

        Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
        Stanfordian

        The Avid album combines "Quiet Kenny ", "This is the moment", "Inta something" and "Matador." The last two are the ones that are worth the money, in my opinion.



        SA

        It probably seems heretical to say this but I find Clifford Brown to be a bit boring. I don't agree that he was "safe" as his music reflected the state jazz was in at the time and I have no doubt he would have evolved in to a totally different player. Had he lived, I think that he would have developed in an entirely different direction and we would have probably have been talking about a body of "mature" work that centred around the first half of the 1960's. Listening in 2017 I would agree that the cleanliness of his timbre is a big problem and the attack is so relentless as to seem to have too little variety these days. I find it fascinating that certain characteristics in jazz go in and out of fashion and the whole solo-centric approach favoured by Clifford Brown is the anti-thesis of much of what is goin on in jazz these days. The whole, gladiatorial aspect of music that resurfaced in the 1980s is no longer quite some fashionable.

        When I first heard Clifford brown as a teenager was very impressed but he was one of those players whose appeal was quickly lost on me and he has never been someone I have returned to with enthusiasm. There is almost a machine-like perfection with his playing that doesn't seem as rewarding as someone like Dorham who was not so brash and really tried to explore his instrument more thoroughly as opposed to Brown's aggressive virtuosity. I don't find that there is sufficient variety to warrant listening to Clifford Brown as a number of other trumpet players. I much prefer Dizzy Gillespie, for example as he had a more sly way of expressing rhythm.

        It is interesting listening to jazz from the 1950's as seeing what is dated and what has stood the test of time. I feel that there was a lot in this era which was actually quite conservative and then you return to albums like the Bob Brookmeyer / Jimmy Guiffre / Jim Hall album from 1957 called "Traditionalism Re-visited" and discover a record that purported to look back upon the jazz of the 1920s in a then contemporary-fashion actually anticipates the kind of stuff Bill Frisell was doing in the 1980's. I much prefer this more thoughtful approach to jazz ( and I do not mean introspective) to the more impulsive music of the era like Clifford Brown. It is surprising to hear just how free Brookmeyer, Hall and Guiffre were and how prepared they were to push the harmony to breaking point as opposed to producing great feats of stamina.

        Where has Bluesnik been of late, by the way?
        Sadly, Bluesnik appears to have departed the bored in a post complaining about "canting priests" (12/4/17 - 'Hitting the High Notes: Modern Jazz and Heroin').

        JR

        Comment

        • Stanfordian
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 9308

          ‘Song for my Father ’
          Horace Silver with
          a) Blue Mitchell, Junior Cook, Gene Taylor & Roy Brooks
          b) Carmell Jones, Joe Henderson, Teddy Smith & Roger Humphries
          Blue Note (1963/64)

          Comment

          • Stanfordian
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 9308

            ‘Hi Voltage’
            Hank Mobley with Blue Mitchell, Jackie McLean, John Hicks, Bob Cranshaw & Billy Higgins
            Blue Note (1967)

            Comment

            • Ian Thumwood
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 4129

              Originally posted by Jazzrook View Post
              Sadly, Bluesnik appears to have departed the bored in a post complaining about "canting priests" (12/4/17 - 'Hitting the High Notes: Modern Jazz and Heroin').

              JR

              Cheers, Jazzrook

              I had forgotten about that. Every now and again he has a hissy fit and disappears for a while. It is a shame as his posts are always interesting even if I don't agree with their sentiments. I guess that we can anticipate him coming back in the next few weeks when he is bored of if someone posts a comment about Elmo Hope.

              Comment

              • Stanfordian
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 9308

                ‘Indestructible’
                Art Blakey with Curtis Fuller, Wayne Shorter, Cedar Walton & Reggie Workman
                Blue Note (1964)

                Comment

                • CGR
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2016
                  • 370

                  Venture Inward
                  David Weiss & Point of Departure
                  Positone, 2013

                  Comment

                  • Stanfordian
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 9308

                    ‘Breaking Point!’
                    Freddie Hubbard, James Spaulding, Ronnie Mathews, Eddie Khan & Joe Chambers
                    Blue Note (1964)

                    Comment

                    • Stanfordian
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 9308

                      ‘It’s About Time’
                      Clark Terry, Jimmy Hamilton, Britt Woodman, Tommy Flanagan, Wendell Marshall & Mel Lewis
                      Swingville (1961)

                      Comment

                      • Stanfordian
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 9308

                        'Free For All'
                        Art Blakey with Freddie Hubbard, Curtis Fuller, Wayne Shorter, Cedar Walton & Reggie Workman
                        Blue Note (1964)

                        Comment

                        • Ian Thumwood
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 4129

                          Putting my controversialist hat on again, I think that Duke Ellington's later work is seriously under-valued and I have always had the suspicion that he would arrived in a very interesting place had he lived and worked in onto the 1980's. There is always the issue of the departure of key players like Johnny Hodges but Ellington's writing seemed to find new levels. I sometimes feel that his later bands seemed to have drummers who were more switched on by players like Elvin Jones and the modernity of his music is also enhanced by inclusion of "new" instruments such as flute and organ. Even the meters of the compositions seem increasingly progressive and the use of soloists like Russell Procope , for me at least, seem to offer the combination of the archaic within a pretty "modern" context.

                          I have been playing Duke Ellington's 1970 masterpiece "The New Orleans suite" this morning and this is as good a demonstration as anything that Ellington was ahead of the curve. The whole album is a gem but I particularly love "Portrait of Mahalia Jackson" which does not sound too far away from the kind of stuff Gil Evans was producing at the time. (Thinking of things like "Variation on the misery" and "So long.") I think it is also quite similar to some of Mike Gibb's stuff. The arrangement makes the hairs on your neck stand on end and it is not immediately apparent that the orchestration is so innovative. The bass clarinet part is absolutely fascinating and something that might be overlooked but the whole orchestra is no longer being split up in to reed / trombones / trumpet as the Duke might have done earlier. This is one of my very favourite tracks by Ellington as there is something quite sad about the performance not least because the track hints so strongly that he died before his potential was fully fulfilled - which may be an odd thing to say about such as giant as Duke Ellington. The more you listen to his music, the more you hear that is decidedly original and I am adamant that you have got to pay attention to appreciate what a genius he was.

                          I would have to say that Duke Ellington's music is more integral to what is great about jazz than any other musician within the genre. You can take the ingredients , the basic DNA of his approach, and still get something that sounds relevant. The closer people adhere to Duke's model, the more effective their music becomes whether you are talking about Gerald Wilson, Stan Tracey, AEoC or a contemporary group like Jason Roebke's octet.











                          Comment

                          • Stanfordian
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 9308

                            ‘The Freedom Rider’
                            Art Blakey with Lee Morgan, Wayne Shorter, Bobby Timmons & Jymie Merritt
                            Blue Note (1961)

                            Comment

                            • Quarky
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 2655

                              Desafinado- Getz/ Byrd

                              This made the UK top 10 - '62 or thereabouts.

                              Can't see that happening again!

                              Comment

                              • cloughie
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 22110

                                Originally posted by Oddball View Post
                                Desafinado- Getz/ Byrd

                                This made the UK top 10 - '62 or thereabouts.

                                Can't see that happening again!
                                No, but the 60s was a unique decade in its chart variety, Getz was there again with Astrud in Girl from Ipanema.

                                Comment

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