What Jazz are you listening to now?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4328

    I think the Beatles are seriously over-rated. They are interesting insofar that some of their pop songs are quite decent with a few being excellent. However, I always wonder how much was due to George Martin. Certainly I feel that all 4 of the Beatles were average musicians even if you were being kind. Ringo Starr was pretty hapless and McCartney's bass playing being stiff and uninspired.

    The biggest impact is that they encouraged swarms of other young British musicians to follow in their wake and that it distilled a sentiment that somehow technical proficiency was less authentic than working class Brits with only limited technique. This manifested itself through Punk and has never really gone away.

    I understand why people as a whole dislike jazz and classical music yet in America the pop music produced by the likes of Motown abd Stax remained superior as most of the backing musicians were musically literate and often came from a jazz background.

    There are some brilliant versions of Beatles tunes performed by jazz artists. The local radio played an early Beatles track 2 weeks ago and I was shocked how basic yet shambolic it was. I just feel that the Beatles broaden the repertoire without really overing anything itself other than what George Martin or other musicians contributed. Lennon and McCartney are hugely important socially yet the were inept as musicians themselves.

    I thInk most will disagree with me in this respect or at least re ignite the significance of the Brit Invasion. However, as dots on the page, the were not a great band and, with the passage of 60 plus years are pretty hopeless even in comparison with Harry Styles band which is a really tight ensemble .

    I think the Beatles are overdue and appraisal and Quincy Jones assessment is nearer the mark.

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    • elmo
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 552

      Howard McGhee doesn't figure very often on this bored but I really like his playing. Here he is with "Flyin Colors" from the "Dusty Blue" album with Roland Alexander - Tenor, Benny Green Tbn, Pepper Adams Baritone, Tommy Flanagan Piano, Ron Carter Bass, Walter Bolden Drums. Nice piece from a Bop pioneer



      elmo

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      • Ian Thumwood
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 4328

        I rediscovered Guillermo Klein's exceptional album Cristal by his small big band, Los Guachos.

        I had forgotten how good this record is. The music is akin to Charlie Haden's Liberation Music orchestra but more radical and angular. There are touches of Gil Evans too but the music is totally unique and more sophisticated in how deals with rhythm. You get a feel for tango and South American popular song too yet themes are broken up and reassembled. Soloists include the like of Chris Speed , Miguel Zenon and Ben Monder.

        I wish I had discovered Klein earlier as his records are now hard to get hold of. Shame he moved to Spain and no longer as high profile as he deserves to be . He is avant garde although not too challenging to get into. I was struck by his originality from first listen. The more you listen to his music , the most fascinating it becomes. I think he is one of the most adventurous writers in jazz at this moment.

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        • Tenor Freak
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 1074

          Dusted off the old record machine to spin some platters. Currently playing an old favourite, Gary Peacock's Guamba with Jan Garbarek, Palle Mikkelborg and Peter Erskine. The latter has stated that this was one of his favourite sessions for ECM and has posted some pics from the sessions on his social media. What a great bassist Peacock was.
          all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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          • Ian Thumwood
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 4328

            Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
            Dusted off the old record machine to spin some platters. Currently playing an old favourite, Gary Peacock's Guamba with Jan Garbarek, Palle Mikkelborg and Peter Erskine. The latter has stated that this was one of his favourite sessions for ECM and has posted some pics from the sessions on his social media. What a great bassist Peacock was.
            I haven't played that record for ages. There is a similar quartet with Garbarek and Stanko called 'Paradigm' which is even better.

            My favourite record with Palle Mikkelborg is Dino Saluzzi's "Long ago, far in the south " which also features Charlie Haden. I love 70s and 80s ECM although some now sound very dated. The post 1990s releases went down hill. The few I have bought in the last 20 years have been quite ordinary and upstaged by those new releases of historic dates such as Paul Bley's trio. I thunk Saluzzi is not far of 90.

            Whatever happened to Egberto Gismonti ?


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            • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 4345

              Monica Getz, Stan Getz's ex wife has just died aged 90.

              From the New York Times obit,

              "At the couple’s divorce trial in 1987, Mr. Getz said he often drank to the point of blacking out. “I have a discography of 210 records,” he said, but “some of them I can’t even remember making.”

              The trial, in civil court in White Plains, N.Y., was a lurid affair that made headlines, especially because of the accounts of Mr. Getz’s violence toward his family.

              ​​​​While drinking, he hit his wife repeatedly, according to testimony from Ms. Getz and the couple’s two adult children. Their daughter, Pamela Raynor, said he “would slap, kick and punch” her mother while drunk. Monica Getz recalled her husband once beating her so badly with a telephone that she fell and hit her head, requiring hospitalization..."

              She used to secretly add Antabuse (an anti alcoholic reaction drug) to all his food in an attempt to keep him sober-ish. He accused her of trying to poison him. Strangely she petitioned against the divorce under the delusion she could reform him. "Stan? A bunch of guys" as Zoot Sims said.

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              • Tenor Freak
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 1074

                Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post

                I haven't played that record for ages. There is a similar quartet with Garbarek and Stanko called 'Paradigm' which is even better.

                My favourite record with Palle Mikkelborg is Dino Saluzzi's "Long ago, far in the south " which also features Charlie Haden. I love 70s and 80s ECM although some now sound very dated. The post 1990s releases went down hill. The few I have bought in the last 20 years have been quite ordinary and upstaged by those new releases of historic dates such as Paul Bley's trio. I thunk Saluzzi is not far of 90.

                Whatever happened to Egberto Gismonti ?

                Egberto Gismonti is still around and gigging; in fact he played two days at Cafe OTO last year. Of Saluzzi's work I enjoy Cité De La Musique from 1997 with Marc Johnson on bass and José Maria Saluzzi on acoustic guitar. Just the right amount of pathos in there and Saluzzi's bandoneon has a much softer sound than a plain old accordion. Johnson gives him a bit of a kick up the bum so the music never settles into snoozeville, it's more rhythmic than a lot of late ECM LPs. Will have to check out "Long Ago, Far In The South" as anything with Haden on it usually has something going for it.
                all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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                • Serial_Apologist
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 38069

                  Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
                  Will have to check out "Long Ago, Far In The South" as anything with Haden on it usually has something going for it.
                  Well I for one would vouch for it. Goodness knows what happened to the copy I owned. I would argue that Garbarek's unique (but for a time influential) style was best represented outside the somewhat precious aesthetic of his own-led bands from the late 70s on, strongly encouraged by ECM.

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                  • Ian Thumwood
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4328

                    I have 2 Saluzzi discs but have always over that album with Mikkelborg. It is quite abstract yet not really free jazz. Haden is superb and Pierre Favre is a perfect fit.

                    Listening to the Klein disc reminded me just how much national identities applied to jazz made such a potent brew in the 1980s. I think Klien drags the music into something where the writing is extremely creative. It is not too far removed from the work of Saluzzi or Charlie Haden's Liberation Music Orchestra yet exchanges the free jazz element for more advanced styles of writing . I think Bruce would love this music although it has a bite that Manfred Eicher would not appreciate.

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                    • Ian Thumwood
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4328

                      Garbarek is a curious case. I heard him in concert at Edinburgh Festival around 1986 and before I was aware of his recorded work. I used to love his albums but it increasingly became like New Age music and had nothing to do with jazz by the time he got to early 1990s when I stopped listening to him.

                      It is quite interesting to return to his earlier jazz records too. The earlier , free stuff is celebrated but I personally feel it is like 2nd division Albert Ayler and sounds poor by comparison these days. His best work was mid 1970s through to.mid eighties excluding his own groups plus some of the albums like Winter Solstice where the ECM aesthetic sounds very dated. Love the recordings with Stanko, Jarrett , Gismonti and Mikkelborg where he was terrific but too much of his music has nothing to do with jazz. He had a terrific reputation in 1970s and 80s but wonder if anyone would still cite him as an infuence as significant as Brecker, Murray , Lovano , etc. By the time he had recorded with the Hilliard Ensemble the music only intrigued ne insofar that I am fascinated by history. I saw this combination at Salisbury cathedral and found it intriguing yet I stopped listening to Garbarek completely soon afterwards.
                      .
                      Plenty of criticism on this board of New Neos yet I personally feel Garbarek had become too divorced from jazz by that point to leave a lasting legacy. 'It's OK to listen to the gray voice' staggered me when I first heard it but I think the brooding quality of the music has not aged well. He may well be the archetypal ECM artist but I do feel his lasting reputation only relates to.a proportion of his appearances in other groups. I cannot believe that anyone listens to Eberhard Weber anymore either. Difficult to take only a proportion of his output seriously after he started producing records that conjured up a nordic Lord of rhe Rings refracted through Kenny G. Garbarek's tone on tenor and soprano remains something of true beauty yet I think too much of his music is pretty shallow these days.
                      Last edited by Ian Thumwood; 15-02-25, 21:31.

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                      • elmo
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 552

                        Had not played this for some time and had forgotten how good it was especially "Sweet and lovely" by the legendary Monk 'Five Spot' quartet with Trane, Ahmad Malik and Shadow Wilson recorded at Carnegie Hall Nov 1957. Halfway through Trane's solo he doubles the tempo and delivers an amazing lesson in 'sheets of sound' - oh to have been able to have witnessed that band playing at the Five Spot. I think it was Charlie Watts that said while his mates were in awe of Elvis, Buddy Holly etc he would be standing outside the Five spot - me too....




                        elmo

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                        • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 4345

                          It is a remarkable recording and long ago I had that track played on JRR. Also on that concert were Mose Allison, I think with Zoot Sims, the Sonny Rollins trio? and especially for me, the Ray Charles small band with Ed Blackwell on drums. The tapes exist, I think there was some problem with artist/estate approval but I would love to hear them all. Probably the earliest Ray Charles live recording.

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                          • Jazzrook
                            Full Member
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 3150

                            Ed Blackwell’s debut album ‘In The Beginning’ with the American Jazz Quintet in 1956(?):

                            Provided to YouTube by CDBabyTo Brownie · American Jazz QuintetIn the Beginning℗ 1991 Afo RecordsReleased on: 1991-01-01Auto-generated by YouTube.


                            JR

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                            • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 4345

                              Record Store Day release April 2025?

                              Freddie Hubbard - "On Fire, live at the Blue Morocco, 1967. With Benny Maupin sounding very Mr Rollins. There's also a Kenny Dorham live set with Sonny Red, "Blue Bossa at the Blue Morocco". Not sure if these are LP only, initially.

                              Anyway, here's Freddie sounding very strong...


                              Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; Yesterday, 20:41.

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                              • Ian Thumwood
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 4328

                                Resonance Records. Available of cd too.

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