What Jazz are you listening to now?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4184

    I have been listening to Brad Mehldau's exceptional solo album After Bach" which largely consists of originals with 5 of Bach's Preludes & Fugues from the Well tempered Clavier thrown in. The original music is largely inspired by Bach, both in the compositions and the improvisations. However, the results are really difficult to pigeon hole. It does not really swing and the harmonic language Mehldau is using is more akin to the 20th century. There is no attempt to be ironic and you could be forgiven for thinking this music was composed by someone like Prokoviev. It is fascinating to listen to and probably the most intriguing thing I have heard Meldau do. I find some of his other solo work to be a bit wan and maybe you could argue that the number of pianists who have followed in his wake over the last 30 years have probably diluted the impact of his trios which sounded so original when they first came out. I cannot abide his efforts with electronic keyboards, whether it is an attempt to mash things up with drummer Mark Gulliana or the recent Prog-rock facsimiles which I find to be execrable. This Bach-inspired disc is something else, in my opinion. It is fascinating to listen to and also one of the best efforts I have heard where jazz has examined the Classical canon. For me, Bach is one of the towering figures in Western music and you can see why he has held the fascination of all sorts of jazz pianists from John Lewis , Jacques Loussier and Keith Jarrett. JSB is really part of the improvisor's DNA. I would suggest that none of these pianists has interrogated Bach's music to the extent of producing something quite so radical as what Melhdau has done here. This is music which really matters.

    I have found it quite fascinating to juxtapose Mehldau's music with the recording Bill Evans made in the 1960 which coupled his trio with the orchestra and arrangement of Claus Ogerman where they attempted to bridge the gap between jazz and Classical music. Playing one disc after the other, the most striking difference in the mindset of the approaches that are over 50 years apart. The Evans disc includes music by some of my favourite composers such as Scriabin, Chopin and Bach as well as Granados whose work I am not too familiar with. I am fine with Evans' piano playing but the Achilles heel with this record is Ogerman's lush orchestral arrangements which diminish the music almost to the point of being "Easy Listening." I don't think some writing in 2023 would produced something so work-a-day. The arrangements are simply not robust enough and indicative of the commercial direction Verve was taking in the 1960s. By all accounts Ogerman was well respected as an arranger yet I feel it was probably not a good match for Evans in the 1960s and has not been served well by the passage of time. As a piece of music, the Mehldau record is far more challenging and understanding than where Bill Evans' concept was. Evans seems very respectful of his material whereas Brad Mehldau has a thirst to interrogate Bach's approach both using the source material and his own originals. I don't feel that Brad Mehldau was concerned whether what he was playing was jazz or not - the main point of the album was dealing with Bach's approach to music making and refracting that in an approach which reflected what has happened in music over the last 130 years. There are moments when I can take or leave his playing having been both transfixed by his playing and also been totally bored - both on disc and live in concert. However, for my money, this is probably the best thing I have heard him do. I am staggered by the music contained within "After Bach" which is sincere and genuine. I have been playing masses of piano music by Field, Scriabin, Scarlatti, Chopin , Bach and Enescu of late and this disc stands up with this music. Mehldau's record does not sound false or forced . It really is an incredible disc even if it is quite detatched from jazz. Regardless of what you want to call it, this is as genuine a development from JSB as anything by Busoni. Not sure if this is something that would appeal to anyone else on this "bored" with the exception , perhaps, of Alyn. Maybe it would be of more interest to people on the Classical board ? (There was a comment on another thread last week about Baroque music which suggested a lack of enthusiasm amongst posters here.) Those on here with a fascination with improvisation in a broader context like SA and Richard Barrett would certainly have interesting views on this disc.

    Comment

    • Serial_Apologist
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 37691

      Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
      I have been listening to Brad Mehldau's exceptional solo album After Bach" which largely consists of originals with 5 of Bach's Preludes & Fugues from the Well tempered Clavier thrown in. The original music is largely inspired by Bach, both in the compositions and the improvisations. However, the results are really difficult to pigeon hole. It does not really swing and the harmonic language Mehldau is using is more akin to the 20th century. There is no attempt to be ironic and you could be forgiven for thinking this music was composed by someone like Prokoviev. It is fascinating to listen to and probably the most intriguing thing I have heard Meldau do. I find some of his other solo work to be a bit wan and maybe you could argue that the number of pianists who have followed in his wake over the last 30 years have probably diluted the impact of his trios which sounded so original when they first came out. I cannot abide his efforts with electronic keyboards, whether it is an attempt to mash things up with drummer Mark Gulliana or the recent Prog-rock facsimiles which I find to be execrable. This Bach-inspired disc is something else, in my opinion. It is fascinating to listen to and also one of the best efforts I have heard where jazz has examined the Classical canon. For me, Bach is one of the towering figures in Western music and you can see why he has held the fascination of all sorts of jazz pianists from John Lewis , Jacques Loussier and Keith Jarrett. JSB is really part of the improvisor's DNA. I would suggest that none of these pianists has interrogated Bach's music to the extent of producing something quite so radical as what Melhdau has done here. This is music which really matters.

      I have found it quite fascinating to juxtapose Mehldau's music with the recording Bill Evans made in the 1960 which coupled his trio with the orchestra and arrangement of Claus Ogerman where they attempted to bridge the gap between jazz and Classical music. Playing one disc after the other, the most striking difference in the mindset of the approaches that are over 50 years apart. The Evans disc includes music by some of my favourite composers such as Scriabin, Chopin and Bach as well as Granados whose work I am not too familiar with. I am fine with Evans' piano playing but the Achilles heel with this record is Ogerman's lush orchestral arrangements which diminish the music almost to the point of being "Easy Listening." I don't think some writing in 2023 would produced something so work-a-day. The arrangements are simply not robust enough and indicative of the commercial direction Verve was taking in the 1960s. By all accounts Ogerman was well respected as an arranger yet I feel it was probably not a good match for Evans in the 1960s and has not been served well by the passage of time. As a piece of music, the Mehldau record is far more challenging and understanding than where Bill Evans' concept was. Evans seems very respectful of his material whereas Brad Mehldau has a thirst to interrogate Bach's approach both using the source material and his own originals. I don't feel that Brad Mehldau was concerned whether what he was playing was jazz or not - the main point of the album was dealing with Bach's approach to music making and refracting that in an approach which reflected what has happened in music over the last 130 years. There are moments when I can take or leave his playing having been both transfixed by his playing and also been totally bored - both on disc and live in concert. However, for my money, this is probably the best thing I have heard him do. I am staggered by the music contained within "After Bach" which is sincere and genuine. I have been playing masses of piano music by Field, Scriabin, Scarlatti, Chopin , Bach and Enescu of late and this disc stands up with this music. Mehldau's record does not sound false or forced . It really is an incredible disc even if it is quite detatched from jazz. Regardless of what you want to call it, this is as genuine a development from JSB as anything by Busoni. Not sure if this is something that would appeal to anyone else on this "bored" with the exception , perhaps, of Alyn. Maybe it would be of more interest to people on the Classical board ? (There was a comment on another thread last week about Baroque music which suggested a lack of enthusiasm amongst posters here.) Those on here with a fascination with improvisation in a broader context like SA and Richard Barrett would certainly have interesting views on this disc.
      Thanks for this info, Ian. We had Mehldau playing solo on J to Z last year, if my memory serves me. Prokofiev was the composer who came to my mind at the time too, though I'm not sure if that particular solo set included Bach material. I have to say I found that performance lacking in oomph of any kind. Someone who to my thinking really has applied and extended on the Prokofiev influence was Robert Mitchell, who I have always thought the best by a long mile of the pianists to come out of Gary Crosby's school.

      Comment

      • Joseph K
        Banned
        • Oct 2017
        • 7765

        Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
        Downloaded this on Apple music. I’m taking your recommendation seriously.
        I take it your silence means you weren't enamoured of Hard Hat Area?

        Comment

        • Joseph K
          Banned
          • Oct 2017
          • 7765

          Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
          I take it your silence means you weren't enamoured of Hard Hat Area?
          Sorry, in hindsight this came out more brusquely than I intended!

          I have been listening to Charlie Parker's tune 'Dewey Square' which I have loved for a long time. As mentioned in post no. 7404 on this thread, I have homework to do, namely, I have to learn to sing a single chorus from a number by either Charlie Christian or Charlie Parker - I started off trying to learn to sing 'Seven Come Eleven' by Christian but decided it's not all that singable, so I thought I'd go with the more familiar and lyrical (singable) 'Dewey Square'. Now I think I'll learn to sing a chorus from 'Swing To Bop' by Christian in addition to the Parker, just because I want to, and it is something that I am familiar with ... also good going above and beyond in my homework!

          Comment

          • elmo
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 544

            Stan Getz and Albert Dailey 'Spring can really hang you up the most' from the album "Poetry" beautiful track



            elmo

            Comment

            • elmo
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 544

              John Coltrane Quartet ' Creation' 1965 - To my knowledge this incredible performance has not been issued legally. I bought the latest issue of 'One down one up' the 1965 Half Note recordings on Ezz thetic because of the much improved sound, they should have made it a double cd by including this track - missed opportunity.



              elmo

              Comment

              • Ian Thumwood
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 4184

                Originally posted by elmo View Post
                John Coltrane Quartet ' Creation' 1965 - To my knowledge this incredible performance has not been issued legally. I bought the latest issue of 'One down one up' the 1965 Half Note recordings on Ezz thetic because of the much improved sound, they should have made it a double cd by including this track - missed opportunity.



                elmo
                I have the Impulse double CD of "One up, one down" and think that this is one of the truly great John Coltrane performances. The title track is exceptional and, in my opinion, I think it trumps much of the music he laid down in the studio. I love the part where the music becomes a high intensity duo with Elvin Jones. I feel the rest of the music on this double CD is very good too and I would struggle to argue if someone suggested that this was the greatest live jazz solo captured on record. More than any other Coltrane record in my collection, I think this double CD gets to the nub of why he was so great.

                I have been playing Hampton Hawes yesterday and did not realise just how early some of his first records were. The bass playing of Red Mitchell is also great. Hampton Hawes is one of those names that is now mentioned less and less although I think that he is like Kenny Dorham insofar once you have heard him, you quikcly become a fan. Wierd to think that he ultimately grew disillusioned with jazz. For my money, I think Hawes was the most important pianist to have come out from the influence of Bud Powell. There is a lazer-like intensity with Powell which I find compelling. Hawes seems to be the flip side of that as it is his looseness with regards to rhythm that makes his playing a delight to listen to. Hawes was probably the hardest swinging pianist in jazz until the arrival of McCoy Tyner.

                Comment

                • Joseph K
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2017
                  • 7765

                  I agree with Ian about the Half Note 'One Down, One Up'. But I have to say that I get the impression that the version of 'My Favorite Things' on the second disk of that set would have been one of if not the greatest version of that tune by the classic quartet - 'would have been' because the stupid radio broadcaster has to stop it just while Coltrane is getting started! But I sense something great and profound - even by Coltrane's standards - just from what we do have of Coltrane on that recording. As such, it is a bit of a frustrating set (the same thing happens on the first disk too, with Coltrane getting cut off) the greatness of 'One Down, One Up' notwithstanding.
                  Last edited by Joseph K; 15-01-23, 14:21.

                  Comment

                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37691

                    Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                    I agree with Ian about the Half Note 'One Down, One Up'. But I have to say that I get the impression that the version of 'My Favorite Things' on the second disk of that set would have been one of if not the greatest version of that tune by the classical quartet - 'would have been' because the stupid radio broadcaster has to stop it just while Coltrane is getting started! But I sense something great and profound - even by Coltrane's standards - just from what we do have of Coltrane on that recording. As such, it is a bit of a frustrating set (the same thing happens on the first disk too, with Coltrane getting cut off) the greatness of 'One Down, One Up' notwithstanding.
                    There are probably bootlegs around the place. Let's hope one comes out - though I wouldn't normally be saying this.

                    Comment

                    • Joseph K
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2017
                      • 7765

                      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                      There are probably bootlegs around the place. Let's hope one comes out -
                      Indeed!


                      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                      though I wouldn't normally be saying this.
                      How come? I mean, I admit I was a bit disappointed with the latest release of A Love Supreme live, but it's nice to have as a kind of curiosity.

                      Comment

                      • Serial_Apologist
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 37691

                        Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                        How come?
                        Royalties.

                        Comment

                        • Jazzrook
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 3084

                          Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
                          I have the Impulse double CD of "One up, one down" and think that this is one of the truly great John Coltrane performances. The title track is exceptional and, in my opinion, I think it trumps much of the music he laid down in the studio. I love the part where the music becomes a high intensity duo with Elvin Jones. I feel the rest of the music on this double CD is very good too and I would struggle to argue if someone suggested that this was the greatest live jazz solo captured on record. More than any other Coltrane record in my collection, I think this double CD gets to the nub of why he was so great.

                          I have been playing Hampton Hawes yesterday and did not realise just how early some of his first records were. The bass playing of Red Mitchell is also great. Hampton Hawes is one of those names that is now mentioned less and less although I think that he is like Kenny Dorham insofar once you have heard him, you quikcly become a fan. Wierd to think that he ultimately grew disillusioned with jazz. For my money, I think Hawes was the most important pianist to have come out from the influence of Bud Powell. There is a lazer-like intensity with Powell which I find compelling. Hawes seems to be the flip side of that as it is his looseness with regards to rhythm that makes his playing a delight to listen to. Hawes was probably the hardest swinging pianist in jazz until the arrival of McCoy Tyner.
                          Another neglected pianist, Claude Williamson with Dave Carpenter & Paul Kreibich playing Bud Powell's 'Sub City' from the 1995 album 'Hallucinations:

                          Claude Williamson - p クロード・ウィリアムソンDave Carpenter - b デイブ・カーペンターPaul Kreibich -d ポール・クリビックRecorded 2/28/1995, 3/1/1995https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clau...


                          JR

                          Comment

                          • JasonPalmer
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2022
                            • 826

                            Enjoying jazz record requests

                            Annoyingly listening to and commenting on radio 3...

                            Comment

                            • Serial_Apologist
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 37691

                              Originally posted by JasonPalmer View Post
                              Enjoying jazz record requests

                              https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gy40
                              Tracks of Bessie Smith and Billie Holiday are certainly big plusses in a single broadcast.

                              Comment

                              • Ian Thumwood
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 4184

                                Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                                I agree with Ian about the Half Note 'One Down, One Up'. But I have to say that I get the impression that the version of 'My Favorite Things' on the second disk of that set would have been one of if not the greatest version of that tune by the classic quartet - 'would have been' because the stupid radio broadcaster has to stop it just while Coltrane is getting started! But I sense something great and profound - even by Coltrane's standards - just from what we do have of Coltrane on that recording. As such, it is a bit of a frustrating set (the same thing happens on the first disk too, with Coltrane getting cut off) the greatness of 'One Down, One Up' notwithstanding.
                                Joseph

                                I believe that Coltrane had been playing "One up,One down" for 40 minutes before the broadcast started. There was a bootleg of the radio performance that was allegedly doing the rounds in the 1960s when Brecker and Leibman were students but as the tape originated from the radio, I doubt if the missing part exists. To my mind, there is a lot of Coltrane that has seen the light of day of late and can recall reading that they have hardly scratched the surface with what exists. I believe that it is in excess of the current Impulse library and will probably proivide someone with a very nice pension. "One up, One down" was certainly a worthwhile release. What I think will be interesting is how the previously unavailable material from all sorts of artists will impact on new releases in the future. I could see future jazz albums being split in to contemporary stuff which will be download only with vintage material remaining a CD issues but with booklets, etc. The big problem is that much of the undiscovered material is often better than what is being released by new artists.

                                Comment

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