What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Serial_Apologist]

... Stravinsky too. If you explore scales like the whole-tone and diminished (known in classical music as the octatonic) then you might come up with something similar to Debussy etc. In fact, I have a piece which exists in a few different versions which features Scriabin-esque harmony, including some chords that defy a chord-scale jazz-theory analysis (but which of course will still have to be improvised over). I just need to get down to figuring out how my loop pedal works to create my own backing track... then I can begin practising it properly...

Over on the other thread you mentioned Messiaen; I believe quite a few jazz guitarists these days are borrowing ideas like the modes of limited transposition from him (though, unfortunately, he hated jazz)

As to "jazz harmony" you can find a lot of British, or more specifically English jazz, from John Dankworth and Michaerl Garrick on through the John Taylor/John Surman/Norma Winstone circle and on to someone such as Kit Downes today using a lot of hamonic "devices" from the early 20th century "pastoral" composers, in particular John Ireland, Frank Bridge and Gustav Holst - believe it or not, some might say. Bridge's late Piano Trio is full of pre-echoes of John Taylor (early Messiaen too, btw). And there are chords of superimposed fourths unfolded in later Holst (The Choral Symphony) and in the resplendant final theme of Bridge's wonderful tone poem "Enter Spring" that would later find their way into McCoy Tyler's left hand accompaniments, and from there into Keith Tippett. Mike Garrick's "October Woman" has strong Bridge-like echoes; when I mentioned this to him he said, "And yet I had never heard any of Bridge's music at the time of its composition" (1966 I think), which suggests to me that such harmonies were very much "in the air" for that generation, and could as easily have been absorbed osmotically from just having Light Programme music programmes on as a backdrop to the quiet daily life of the pre-Swinging Sixties era. For the likes of Bill Evans, McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock that kind of harmonic language came along as part of the move away from chromatically inflected chordal superimpositions on basic diatonic chords towards scales and modal thinking. As Joseph K and Ian say, respectively, impressionist (Debussy/Ravel) and post-impressionist (Stravinsky) harmonies were melded in with Chopinesque chromaticism, which could well have insinuated itself into what would become stride jazz harmony through Ragtime, which had a lot of the Polonaise inscribed in it.

[Joseph K]

As to "jazz harmony" you can find a lot of British, or more specifically English jazz, from John Dankworth and Michaerl Garrick on through the John Taylor/John Surman/Norma Winstone circle and on to someone such as Kit Downes today using a lot of hamonic "devices" from the early 20th century "pastoral" composers, in particular John Ireland, Frank Bridge and Gustav Holst - believe it or not, some might say. Bridge's late Piano Trio is full of pre-echoes of John Taylor (early Messiaen too, btw). And there are chords of superimposed fourths unfolded in later Holst (The Choral Symphony) and in the resplendant final theme of Bridge's wonderful tone poem "Enter Spring" that would later find their way into McCoy Tyler's left hand accompaniments, and from there into Keith Tippett. Mike Garrick's "October Woman" has strong Bridge-like echoes; when I mentioned this to him he said, "And yet I had never heard any of Bridge's music at the time of its composition" (1966 I think), which suggests to me that such harmonies were very much "in the air" for that generation, and could as easily have been absorbed osmotically from just having Light Programme music programmes on as a backdrop to the quiet daily life of the pre-Swinging Sixties era. For the likes of Bill Evans, McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock that kind of harmonic language came along as part of the move away from chromatically inflected chordal superimpositions on basic diatonic chords towards scales and modal thinking. As Joseph K and Ian say, respectively, impressionist (Debussy/Ravel) and post-impressionist (Stravinsky) harmonies were melded in with Chopinesque chromaticism, which could well have insinuated itself into what would become stride jazz harmony through Ragtime, which had a lot of the Polonaise inscribed in it.

Thanks for this post.

Currently listening to Oz Noy's recently released album Riverside, mentioned a few times upthread. The first tune is All The Things You Are, check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4DpJtPCQU

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks for this post.

Currently listening to Oz Noy's recently released album Riverside, mentioned a few times upthread. The first tune is All The Things You Are, check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4DpJtPCQU

Enjoyed that, thanks Joseph K - another name new to me!

I'm taking the liberty of breaking the rules, and expect now to be summarily banned and sent back to the Abergavenny Salt Mines for re-education, but below I have linked to a performance of Frank Bridge's 1932 violin sonata, a favourite from this composer of mine, but specifically to draw attention to the kinds of things which were being commented on previously about jazz harmony. Bridge was not influenced by jazz in any way (at any rate to the best of my knowledge); the influences here being mainly Bartok, Berg, Fauré, late Scriabin, possibly Szymanowsky - and in any case it would have been the jazz of the time, not that of the 1960s onwards, in which I am finding many of the same harmonic usages re-purposed - added-note chords, fourth chords etc - and of non-diatonic modes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ZjcLmhmwk

Some great pics there - I must look out for a hat like that one!

I've also linked to Bridge's fourth string quartet over on the What Classical Music are you Listening to? thread - a work I have a great passion for.

[Joseph K]

Enjoyed that, thanks Joseph K - another name new to me!

I'm taking the liberty of breaking the rules, and expect now to be summarily banned and sent back to the Abergavenny Salt Mines for re-education, but below I have linked to a performance of Frank Bridge's 1932 violin sonata, a favourite from this composer of mine, but specifically to draw attention to the kinds of things which were being commented on previously about jazz harmony. Bridge was not influenced by jazz in any way (at any rate to the best of my knowledge); the influences here being mainly Bartok, Berg, Fauré, late Scriabin, possibly Szymanowsky - and in any case it would have been the jazz of the time, not that of the 1960s onwards, in which I am finding many of the same harmonic usages re-purposed - added-note chords, fourth chords etc - and of non-diatonic modes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ZjcLmhmwk

Some great pics there - I must look out for a hat like that one!

I've also linked to Bridge's fourth string quartet over on the What Classical Music are you Listening to? thread - a work I have a great passion for.

Listening now (to the violin sonata, I mean.)

[Ian Thumwood]

One musician who always seems to get unreservedly good reviews in the jazz press in Wadada Leo Smith. I had really over-looked his playing and I cannot recall his name ever coming up for discussion in this board. I was piqued by the new album with his trumpet lined up with Vijay Iyer's piano and Jack DeJohnette's drums called "Love sonnet to Billie Holiday." This is another of his records which has received glowing reviews.

I am afraid to say that the results of really disappointing. I get Smith's indebtedness to Miles Davis insofar that it borrows a lot of his long notes in the solos yet I am wary of his tone when he uses a mute. The fragility of Davis's sound is missing and replaced with a hardness that puts a distance between what he is playing and what I am listening to. Setting that aside, the most interesting musician here is DeJohnette whose drumming glues the music together as well as providing the most memorable theme on the disc. Iyer is an odd player for me who is probably more switched on in this context than the leader. He is a more interesting soloist and intriguing when he switches to electic piano yet I cannot describe his style as anything more appropriate than "cerebral." The other problem I have with this record is the lack of memorable material. Smith's other discs are celebrated for his adventurousness as a compoer with albums like the Great Lakes Suite getting the kind of respect usually accorded to Ellington. I expected much more of this record . I have listened to it a few times to see if it yields more with repeated listening. It is a difficult album to love due to the absence of themes and the somewhat harsh tone of the trumpet. The album gives the impression that there is something going on in the music that only the players are aware of - there is little concession for the listener.

No one seems to have checked out his music on this board although I wonder if it would have been something that Richard Barrett might have singled out. I do not find the music challenging or overly-complex and it certainly cannot be described as shockingly radical. This music is pretty familiar these days and a style of approach I usually find that makes me prick up my ears. In this case, it is so, so. I had really wanted to love this music and find that I had stumbled on a musician I should never have over-looked. By contrast, I am a little bit under-whelmed. Wondered if anyone else had checked out his recent output.

[Joseph K]

Listening now (to the violin sonata, I mean.)

I enjoyed this BTW.

[Stanfordian]

‘Undercurrent’ – Kenny Drew
with Hank Mobley, Freddie Hubbard, Sam Jones & Louis Hayes
Blue Note (1960)

[Serial_Apologist]

I enjoyed this BTW.

Thanks! (Bit of a coincidence with the name of the violinist on that recording - I only noticed just now!)

[Joseph K]

The guy who makes the youtube Jazz Guitar Scrapbook videos has released an album which I'm currently checking out now:

https://christianmillerguitar.bandcamp.com/album/anansi-blues?fbclid=IwAR3fPzv8MiKq8OY4Du7EJ3knpFUb1rKeqw2EVKcU5BcXtRCcEL6OrqewEHw

[Joseph K]

Just getting round to listening to the latter half of the second disk of the aforementioned Charlie Parker boxed set of live performances Chasin' The Bird. Bird's solo on the last tune is especially good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2PTRbKMFI

[Joseph K]

John Coltrane - Transition

[elmo]

Joseph - Look out for a 2 hour documentary due to be screened this coming Wednesday 13th called "Chasing Trane:The story of John Coltrane" It's on Sky Arts freeview channel 11 at 21:00. looking forward to it - should be good.

elmo

[Joseph K]

Joseph - Look out for a 2 hour documentary due to be screened this coming Wednesday 13th called "Chasing Trane:The story of John Coltrane" It's on Sky Arts freeview channel 11 at 21:00. looking forward to it - should be good.

elmo

Thanks, will do.

[Serial_Apologist]

Joseph - Look out for a 2 hour documentary due to be screened this coming Wednesday 13th called "Chasing Trane:The story of John Coltrane" It's on Sky Arts freeview channel 11 at 21:00. looking forward to it - should be good.

elmo

Many thanks for drawing attention to this, elmo.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Many thanks for drawing attention to this, elmo.

There are excerpts from it on YouTube (it's from 2016). Here's the drug years...http://youtu.be/H7pAa6HdgK4

Not sure why Bill Clinton's presence in all this. Maybe they needed his name to impress. Denzel Washington voices Coltrane.