What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Joseph K]

My favourite of the 3 (?) pre-Headhunters HH Sxt albums is actually Sextant - for me the two that followed over-egged the pudding with synthesisers and reverb washes.

You are correct that, as far as I can see, glancing at his discography on wikipedia, there are three Mwandishi-era albums, but Sextant is the last one - it was released the same year as the first Headhunters album. I'm going to give Mwandishi itself a listen today.

[Stanfordian]

‘Dippin'’ – Hank Mobley
with Lee Morgan, Harold Mabern Jr, Larry Ridley & Billy Higgins
Blue Note (1965)

[Serial_Apologist]

You are correct that, as far as I can see, glancing at his discography on wikipedia, there are three Mwandishi-era albums, but Sextant is the last one - it was released the same year as the first Headhunters album. I'm going to give Mwandishi itself a listen today.

Thanks for the correction there! Mwandishi, then, is my favourite of the 3.

[Jazzrook]

Tyrone Washington with Woody Shaw, James Spaulding, Kenny Barron, Reggie Workman & Joe Chambers playing 'Soul Dance' from the album 'Natural Essence' recorded for BLUE NOTE in 1967:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=EMgQjzMK4mw

JR

[Joseph K]

Herbie Hancock - Mwandishi

This is great stuff, I am really enjoying it. I'm on the last song now. There's a special atmosphere, reminiscent of some of the music on Miles's Big Fun.

It's a pity there appears to be no official live album of this group. There's a somewhat sad tale in his autobiography where the tapes of a few live shows that according to HH were some of the most spellbinding music that he & the band had made got stolen...

[RichardB]

My favourite of the 3 (?) pre-Headhunters HH Sxt albums is actually Sextant - for me the two that followed over-egged the pudding with synthesisers and reverb washes.I agree about the late 70s stuff, the Vocoda

I've always liked Sextant also, although I don't share your objection to the electronic additions to subsequent albums. I guess the vocoder stuff from the late 70s made him a lot of cash, but (as Ian T might say!) it's not really jazz in the sense of its improvisational component being reduced to almost nothing. You could say the same about Miles's Tutu of course, but I found that a lot more successful in being something distinct from jazz but quite original on its own terms.

[Joseph K]

I've always liked Sextant also, although I don't share your objection to the electronic additions to subsequent albums.

See #6363 - Serial Apologist meant the album Mwandishi. From what I recall of Sextant - the third and last album of this band of Herbie's - it was not the use of electronics that made it not so good for me but the way in which they're used. However, it has been some time that I've listened to it and I am looking forward to listening again and having my opinion if not changed, then become more nuanced (hopefully!) Today however, I shall be listening to the next album in Herbie's oeuvre, Crossings.

[Serial_Apologist]

See #6363 - Serial Apologist meant the album Mwandishi. From what I recall of Sextant - the third and last album of this band of Herbie's - it was not the use of electronics that made it not so good for me but the way in which they're used. However, it has been some time that I've listened to it and I am looking forward to listening again and having my opinion if not changed, then become more nuanced (hopefully!) Today however, I shall be listening to the next album in Herbie's oeuvre, Crossings.

Strange sort of album, Crossings - to me it sounds like a film soundtrack, otherwise I keep find myself asking, why is the music now going here? No coherent inner narrative form. Although Mwandishi's aims were less ambitious I preferred its freely extended song structured approaches, the results being less crowded. What was interesting at that time was the different directions emergent Fusion was going in, both in America and on these sides of The Pond. Mwandishi and Weather Report's near-contemporary eponymous debut release were the closest among them.

[RichardB]

What was interesting at that time was the different directions emergent Fusion was going in, both in America and on these sides of The Pond. Mwandishi and Weather Report's near-contemporary eponymous debut release were the closest among them.

Those are two examples (Mahavishnu Orchestra being another) of what made early "fusion" an exciting thing, but they were soon overshadowed by what seemed like an endless stream of blandly virtuosic self-indulgence that gave that musical tendency a bad name...

[Stanfordian]

‘True Blue’ – Tina Brooks
with Freddie Hubbard, Duke Jordan, Sam Jones & Art Taylor
Blue Note (1960)

[Serial_Apologist]

Those are two examples (Mahavishnu Orchestra being another) of what made early "fusion" an exciting thing, but they were soon overshadowed by what seemed like an endless stream of blandly virtuosic self-indulgence that gave that musical tendency a bad name...

Which in turn gave some cred to the young Wynton Marsalis's critique of Fusion... except that his take was different and went too far in condemining free jazz as being the first wrong step away from "the true article". An interesting non-sequitur in his way of thinking.

[Joseph K]

Strange sort of album, Crossings - to me it sounds like a film soundtrack, otherwise I keep find myself asking, why is the music now going here? No coherent inner narrative form. Although Mwandishi's aims were less ambitious I preferred its freely extended song structured approaches, the results being less crowded. What was interesting at that time was the different directions emergent Fusion was going in, both in America and on these sides of The Pond. Mwandishi and Weather Report's near-contemporary eponymous debut release were the closest among them.

I agree about Crossings, about there being a lack of coherent narrative form... the first suite-like piece is a bit like less-successful prog-rock. And yes, Mwandishi is a better album.

Those are two examples (Mahavishnu Orchestra being another) of what made early "fusion" an exciting thing, but they were soon overshadowed by what seemed like an endless stream of blandly virtuosic self-indulgence that gave that musical tendency a bad name...

I don't know enough about fusion to talk about there being an endless stream of bland virtuosity like you say, although it is true that I know of at least several guitarists from the eighties onwards who might fit that description, but whether they're actually 'fusion' or not might be debateable - usually it's a case of heavy on the rock or pop side, light on the jazz, in such instances of self-indulgence. I think some of Shawn Lane's early work has a tendency towards self-indulgent display of chops (but my word, what chops!) and he never did learn how to play over changes, but then he went on to make some great albums with Jonas Hellborg, redeeming himself. Likewise, Zappa as a guitarist, though with less chops than Lane, nonetheless would take long solos over vamps.

But I'm not sure I entirely subscribe to the picture you paint of giving the tendency a bad name - which incidentally, sounds strangely similar to something Ian T has argued here before! - since there has always been some good fusion knocking about and doubtless some pretty bland and terrible stuff too, it's not like there has been some overall decline in quality. Allan Holdsworth started his solo career around the beginning of the eighties and made some amazing albums in that decade and into the nineties. And, I would aver, John McLaughlin has been pretty consistently quality in the albums he's made; in the third incarnation of his Mahavishnu Orchestra like Herbie Hancock he experiments with new technology, such as guitar synths, but without doing anything cheesy or pop. Doubtless there's a load of lift-musak and jazz-lite that's been made that people might associate with 'fusion', but I'm not sure it'll overshadow the good stuff, in my mind at least.

[RichardB]

I'm just talking about what led me to lose interest in the whole fusion idea. Probably part of it was (oops, sounding like a jazzhead again!) that the "jazz" (that is to say open-ended and improvisational) side of "jazz-rock" tended to become increasingly marginalsed. It's a long time ago now, but I remember thinking early in the 80s that I wasn't really interested in it any more, in comparison with free jazz and its various strands, which were of course much less subject to the temptations of commercialisation. It was the mention of Weather Report a few posts ago that set off this train of thought - their early albums are bringing something really new to the table, but the commercial success of Heavy Weather (1977) led them in a much less interesting and original direction, same with things like Return to Forever's pseudo-classical Romantic Warrior and so on. Having mentioned the "bad name" of fusion, I should also mention that at the last festival I played at, I ended up in a long and enjoyable and somewhat under-the-influence late night conversation, punctuated by musical examples found on Youtube, with the drummer Ståle Liavik Solberg about our favourite moments from fusion music. I wish I could remember who we talked about!

[Joseph K]

I'm just talking about what led me to lose interest in the whole fusion idea. Probably part of it was (oops, sounding like a jazzhead again!) that the "jazz" (that is to say open-ended and improvisational) side of "jazz-rock" tended to become increasingly marginalsed. It's a long time ago now, but I remember thinking early in the 80s that I wasn't really interested in it any more, in comparison with free jazz and its various strands, which were of course much less subject to the temptations of commercialisation. It was the mention of Weather Report a few posts ago that set off this train of thought - their early albums are bringing something really new to the table, but the commercial success of Heavy Weather (1977) led them in a much less interesting and original direction, same with things like Return to Forever's pseudo-classical Romantic Warrior and so on. Having mentioned the "bad name" of fusion, I should also mention that at the last festival I played at, I ended up in a long and enjoyable and somewhat under-the-influence late night conversation, punctuated by musical examples found on Youtube, with the drummer Ståle Liavik Solberg about our favourite moments from fusion music. I wish I could remember who we talked about!

Sounds fun!

I quite like Heavy Weather. Perhaps for the same reason you mentioned finding Tutu interesting, despite the relative lack of open-ended improv, and in any case Heavy Weather features things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEU-m_KVuYI which certainly does feature some rather excellent improv.

An album or two later, and things like this are truly joyful, despite being heavy on the pre-compositional side of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tw9uYQ5k50

I recommend this, which is from the same era or just after Heavy Weather, to hear how great their live shows were around this time: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Legendary-L...%2C102&sr=1-16

[RichardB]

I recommend this, which is from the same era or just after Heavy Weather, to hear how great their live shows were around this time

Oh yes, their live performances were a different thing, for sure.