What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Quarky]

Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, John Lewis, Al McKibbon & Joe Harris playing 'Confirmation' at Carnegie Hall on September 29, 1947:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=EZiKroVlXLk

JR

Think I prefer Charlie when he plays slowly. Those incredibly fast runs. Decoration?

[elmo]

Think I prefer Charlie when he plays slowly. Those incredibly fast runs. Decoration?

Can't agree Quarky, this is definitely not decoration...

https://youtu.be/ZkKwK4iZ0PI

elmo

[Quarky]

Can't agree Quarky, this is definitely not decoration...

https://youtu.be/ZkKwK4iZ0PI

elmo

Thanks for the link elmo. I can hear the musical logic there, even at hypersonic speed.

Still a question there in my mind. Might come back to you........

[Serial_Apologist]

Can't agree Quarky, this is definitely not decoration...

https://youtu.be/ZkKwK4iZ0PI

elmo

A lot of people of my generation (b. 1945) and the preceding one never came to terms with "modern jazz" as we called it, perceiving it as elevating technique over content. Daphne, an acquaintance of mine and one-time girlfriend of Bruce Turner, stuck to the view that bebop didn't allow enough space for the interactions of the simpler and more short-winded approaches of the pre-bop players. In truth the more chromatic extensions of the line expanded new kinds of interaction and longer term harmonic sophistication, in turn feeding back into new compositional approaches and frameworks which were then to be taken account of when Miles and others opened out the space once more in the 1950s and 60s.

My view has always been that in becoming more complex, jazz, in parallel with C20 classical music, offered an authentic reflection of the complexity of our age.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

If you take something like "Parker's Mood" or "KC Blues" they were not *that* hugely removed from some of say, Sidney Bechet's quartet recordings. True, the harmony is modern but the lines and feeling? The classic 40s bebop lines and themes, OK quite a big stretch, but that gave way to much more stripped themes by the mid 50s. Ian on here has talked about the Horace Silver groups operating like the Basie small bands and he has a point. If jazz evolves it ideally takes elements of the past with it. There are very few fundamental ruptures.

[Ian Thumwood]

I think that it is not unrealistic to draw a line between Bechet and Parker and even extend it on to Ornette. All three musicians were deeply rooted in the Blues and the major difference comes with the harmony which does not seem quite so different these days. The "feeling" of swing did not change radically until the mid 1960s -it was always clear that the music was the same thing.

There can a bit of a over-statement with the importance of Be-bop as so many of the changes which facilitated it seemed to have their origins in the 1930s. What I would say is that the journey towards Be-bop and the innovations of the late 40s is one of the most interesting elements in jazz yet I think it quickly became stale. A lot of players seemed to perform by rote and innovators like Davis and Gillespie quikcly looked beyond the quintet format to find inspiration. I have to say that I do feel that someone like Count Basie is very overlooked in the process and I do sense that the music before the Count was "vintage" whereas the "feel" of the music after he arrived on the scene was never the same again. It is probably difficult to enviasge the impact that band had on jazz throughout the 40s and 50s - not only with "modern soloists" but producing big band music that was firmly instep with the Modern Jazz at the time and increasingly so with the early recordings of the New Testament band. As well as Horace silver, I feel Basie's influence hovered over a lot of West Coast jazz and certainly rhe music it produced for Norman Granz was state of the art at a time when Bird's influence had reached a cul-de-sac. Those Be-bop these are strongly redolent of an era and, for me, they have a magical quality about them when they are at their finest. I am not sure whether jazz has ever been quite so "puritanical" since and I feel that this is both it's strength and weakness. Even the Bop themes performed by Miles' first great quintet seem a bit outmoded by then. I would love to have seen Parker in the context of the innovative jazz of the early 60s and what he would have made of it. I cannot see him embracing the avant garde yet I feel that the next generation of musicians may have offered him the musical solutions which ultimately frustrated him later in his career. It would have been great to have heard Bird in a similar context to Jackie McLeans "let freedom ring.! "

I have been listening to a lot of trumpeters over the past week. I love Palle Mikkelborg's playing with Terje Rypdal on "Descendre" and think this is an absolutely brilliant album. t was good to hear him on JRR the other week. His guitar playing is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. I also dug out Enrico Rava's ECM album "the pilgrim and the stars" which features the late, great John Abercrombie and I had forgotten how good that album was too. I really like Rava's playing as it is like an sunny, Italian version of Kenny Wheeler. Both albums have JOn Christiansen on them and Bruce will love both albums.



Just as good as this is the early Dave Douglas album "Moving Portrait" with a quartet made up of Bill Currothers, James Genus and Billy Hart which dates from 1997. This was the first DD album I bought having been wowed by the records and appearances he made on "Impressions." when he first burst on the scene, this programme was constantly raving about him and I bought this record on a trip to London off the back of the recommendations I have to own up to being a massive Dave Douglas fan yet I had not played this record for a while. Douglas is imperious , both on his own compositions and the covers of Joni Mitchell tunes which are extremely convincing jazz vehicles. At the time I thought Bill Currother's piano playing was another highlight. Listening again, I have to say it is sensational. If people heard his comping on this disc, they would be in raptures. This is an absolutely brilliant album and still stands up 20-odd years later. DD never seems to make duff records and I feel this one is an early career masterpiece.

[Quarky]

Thanks all, for answering the query in my mind, and for putting Charlie Parker in perspective.

[Padraig]

Thanks all, for answering the query in my mind, and for putting Charlie Parker in perspective.

Did someone mention Bechet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKEan0ynWeU

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks all, for answering the query in my mind, and for putting Charlie Parker in perspective.

These occasional discussions about the inner workings of music, how they may have originated and where they ended up, are one of the best contributions jazz aficionados here make to the Forum. I may not always agree with Ian Thumwood (or he with me) but there have been occasions where he has swung my views some way in the direction of his thinking. We often end up with similar opinions on specific performances having arrived there by completely different routes! I wish there was more discussion about form etc in the classical threads, which instead more often seem to be based around performances and interpretations of what's already there! I sometimes introduce figures rarely mentioned otherwise in the hope of sparking some kind of discussion, but especially since Richard Barrett and Joseph K effectively left the forum, this has rarely been happening. I do remember there was a really fascinating in-depth discussion about Anthony Braxton's recent recordings and concerts on the old bored, though I don't remember who the contributers were, myself being new to what was then still under the BBC's aegis.

[Quarky]

These occasional discussions about the inner workings of music, how they may have originated and where they ended up, are one of the best contributions jazz aficionados here make to the Forum. I may not always agree with Ian Thumwood (or he with me) but there have been occasions where he has swung my views some way in the direction of his thinking. We often end up with similar opinions on specific performances having arrived there by completely different routes! I wish there was more discussion about form etc in the classical threads, which instead more often seem to be based around performances and interpretations of what's already there! I sometimes introduce figures rarely mentioned otherwise in the hope of sparking some kind of discussion, but especially since Richard Barrett and Joseph K effectively left the forum, this has rarely been happening. I do remember there was a really fascinating in-depth discussion about Anthony Braxton's recent recordings and concerts on the old bored, though I don't remember who the contributers were, myself being new to what was then still under the BBC's aegis.

There was some chat about Anthony Braxton by Kate Molleson in a recent edition of New Music Show -Dancing on Moonbeams - still available ::

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000zm05

I'm going to listen again. But of course, we don't get much discussion of New Music these days, ferney being a great advocate, as well as RB.

There seems to be a lot of online texts and videos explaining Braxton's exceedingly complex methods, e.g. :: https://www.cafeoto.co.uk/archive/20...ander-hawkins/

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsyfqkOqBsM

there's always a good feeling of success and achievement when you get to grips with these complexities.

However, there is the further question:: Did I really enjoy the musical content?

[Quarky]

Anthony Braxton Opus 23B:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_lZZim0es8

Sounds like free jazz to me, overlooking the structural niceties.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks v much Quarky for all those linx - will take a look at those later.

[Jazzrook]

Walt Dickerson with Austin Crowe, Bob Lewis & Andrew Cyrille playing 'The Cry' in 1961:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=bYoxT1Ep0q0

JR

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Bobby Wellins Quartet, http://youtu.be/H6YaFU9uib4 Live at the Vortex", "Don't Worry 'Bout Me"... lovely, to put it mildly.

[Serial_Apologist]

Bobby Wellins Quartet, http://youtu.be/H6YaFU9uib4 Live at the Vortex", "Don't Worry 'Bout Me"... lovely, to put it mildly.

16 Feb 1996 was the date: Graham Harvey on joanna, Alec Dankworth bass, and Martin Drew drums. My favourite British saxophonist of that generation, our first true original, I would say, and such a nice guy. Beautifully packaged too, by all accounts.