What Jazz are you listening to now?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4129

    Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
    Lee Morgan Quintet (Hancock,Mobley) -"Ceora" from the "Cornbread" Bluenote album. It's a great & memorable tune by Lee from a time when so many original compositions were forgettable. http://youtu.be/ECw3WAX41OA
    Back in the late 1980s, John Zorn made an album called "News for Lulu" which featured a line up of alto, trombone and guitar on selection of material from Blue Note artists Hank Mobley, Freddie Redd, Sonny Clark and Kenny Dorham. This record was a real eye-opener for me because it reinforced just how good the composition on a label like Blue Note was. At the time, most people would have considered the principle "composers" on that label to have been Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver and Thelonious Monk. Anyone who was a bit more savvy would have added the names of Herbie Nichols and Andrew Hill too. What Zorn's album did was to highlight the strength of writing in the Hard Bop idiom.

    I have a book of transcriptions of "Hard Bop" piano which which includes some of these composers and it does have a mixture of strong compositions and some throw-away blues too but I would edge on the side of of arguing that a lot of these composers were actually constantly refining a tradition. Hank Mobley wrote some snappy themes but was also capable of being quite lazy in borrowing other themes on albums like "Roll call." One of the best writers is this idiom was Sonny Clark, a composer who I have always felt sounded like a rather sly version of Horace Silver and might be pretty simple, but they are hugely effective. I see Clark as Hard Bop's answer to Josef Hadyn in that there is always something about both his piano playing and composition which is extremely modest and all the better for that. Another album I have been playing lately is the exceptional Freddie Redd album "Shades of Redd." I would make a bold statement for this album that it is one of the crowning glories of Hard Bop, even though it has to a two-sax front line. "The thespian" and "Shadows" are exceptional compositions in my opinion and I think the album as a whole is immensely satisfying as a whole. It is also quite interesting insofar that it eschews totally any idea of being "progressive" and simply reinforces much of what had been produced in this idiom in the previous five years. For my money it is an album that really deserves to be listened to in more detail. It is very similar to Tina Brook's album "True Blue" which has the same kind of "conservative" approach and a ceding of the role of soloing to writing - "True Blue" is one of the most through-composed Blue Note album.

    With regard to composers from the 50s and 60's, the one name that I am repeatedly finding myself returning to is Kenny Dorham. I feel that he was not only one of the most important and original trumpeters of the 50s and 60s but his writing was massively impressive, even on early albums like "Afro-Cuban" which are very much rooted in their time. The albums he made with Joe Henderson remain amongst the best Blue Note put out and they all benefit from the writing of both co-leaders. For me, they represent a point beyond which Hard Bop had been transcended albeit a precedence has previously been set by "Whistle stop" which was effectively the point at which Hard bop started ti be passed on to Post-bop. Not only has this record some exceptional playing by the leader and also Hank Mobley's best work in the studio, I think that it really demonstrates what a great composer Dorham was. I think he is a major jazz composer and not just a jazz soloist who could write. I had ordered a book of his compositions from America last week because I am fascinated by his writing. I do not feel that forgettable is the right way to describe his work which I feel we be best described as under-appreciated.

    I think there is some element in Bluesnik's comments as there were a great number of players in that generation who lazily churned out contrafacts or blues. Another player I have been listening to last week has been Gene Ammons, a swing-bop era tenor player who has gone completely under the radar yet I feel was always compromised by using a make do and mend approach to material when in the studio. All too often he just plays a blues or uses familiar changes. For me, he was a great soloist but his reputation has been diminished by the poor quality material with which he worked. He was not unique in this respect but I feel that whilst many of the compositions in the 1950s and 60s were often modest or lacked the scope of composers like George Russell, etc, when you judge many of them within the parameters of the oeuvre in which they chose to work, they were often very successful with what they achieved. In the case of Kenny Dorham, I just feel that he was an exceptional talent.

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    • Joseph K
      Banned
      • Oct 2017
      • 7765

      Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
      Slightly irked by the fact amazon promised I'd be getting the new Allan Holdsworth CD/DVD today, now - on the day it's released - it says 23 March - 7 April.

      So I'm going to console myself by sampling - just sampling, mind - one track from the album:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLRg...Y4sLsI&index=2
      Says it's coming tomorrow now.

      Comment

      • Joseph K
        Banned
        • Oct 2017
        • 7765

        Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
        With regard to composers from the 50s and 60's, the one name that I am repeatedly finding myself returning to is Kenny Dorham. I feel that he was not only one of the most important and original trumpeters of the 50s and 60s but his writing was massively impressive, even on early albums like "Afro-Cuban" which are very much rooted in their time.
        You've reminded me, I should continue listening to this, I think I've only listened to the first disk:



        (Having a lazy listening day, recovery from covid jab...)

        Comment

        • Joseph K
          Banned
          • Oct 2017
          • 7765

          Hmmm. On the album 'Round About Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia' the last tune is a composition by Dorham called 'Hill's Edge'... but it sounds exactly like Miles' 'Tune Up' - what's that all about? (Great album though).

          Comment

          • Tenor Freak
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 1047

            "Uranus" - Booker Ervin ts; Horace Parlan, p; George Tucker, b; Al Harewood, d. Candid Records, 1961.
            all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

            Comment

            • Tenor Freak
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 1047

              Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
              In the case of Kenny Dorham, I just feel that he was an exceptional talent.
              Bluesnik sent me his copy of Whistle Stop which is a great album. The tune "Windmill" is my favourite - a complex head over a set of changes including some pedal point bass, then the solos are over the changes of "Sweet Georgia Brown" with perhaps some tweaks to flatten some ninths and raise some elevenths, courtesy of Kenny Drew. Great stuff. Indeed I'm playing it now, Kenny plays a great solo, and Hank is on excellent form. Dorham was a damn fine talent indeed, his compositions stand up today, such as "Escapade" and "Back Road" on Joe Henderson's "Our Thing" plus many more.

              NP: "Windmill" - Kenny Dorham t; Hank Mobley ts; Kenny Drew p; Paul Chambers b; "Philly" Joe Jones, d. Blue Note Records, 1961.
              Last edited by Tenor Freak; 14-03-21, 18:41. Reason: all words are trains for moving past what really has no name
              all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

              Comment

              • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 4270

                Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                Hmmm. On the album 'Round About Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia' the last tune is a composition by Dorham called 'Hill's Edge'... but it sounds exactly like Miles' 'Tune Up' - what's that all about? (Great album though).
                Review of Don Sickler's Nightwatch album (DS a huge Kenny Dorham advocate & publisher)


                "Don Sickler became one of the most in-demand jazz arrangers during the 1980s, and these 1990 studio sessions gave him an opportunity to record under his own name. Assembling a first-rate band mixing veterans and younger musicians, Sickler put together a program consisting of overlooked gems written by Kenny Dorham, Walter Davis, Jr., Elmo Hope, and even Charles Mingus. Dorham's "Hill's Edge" (a brisk reworking of "Tune Up") showcases trombonist Carl Fontana, alto saxophonist Bobby Porcelli (Sickler's bandmate in drummer T.S. Monk's group), tenor saxophonist Ralph Moore, and the leader."

                Btw Eddie Cleanhead Vinson wrote "Four" and "Tune Up" and "lent" them to Miles. When confronted years later Miles admitted, "Eddie Vinson wrote them! Then I wrote them too! So what!" Well...royalties aside.

                Comment

                • Joseph K
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2017
                  • 7765

                  Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                  Review of Don Sickler's Nightwatch album (DS a huge Kenny Dorham advocate & publisher)


                  "Don Sickler became one of the most in-demand jazz arrangers during the 1980s, and these 1990 studio sessions gave him an opportunity to record under his own name. Assembling a first-rate band mixing veterans and younger musicians, Sickler put together a program consisting of overlooked gems written by Kenny Dorham, Walter Davis, Jr., Elmo Hope, and even Charles Mingus. Dorham's "Hill's Edge" (a brisk reworking of "Tune Up") showcases trombonist Carl Fontana, alto saxophonist Bobby Porcelli (Sickler's bandmate in drummer T.S. Monk's group), tenor saxophonist Ralph Moore, and the leader."

                  Btw Eddie Cleanhead Vinson wrote "Four" and "Tune Up" and "lent" them to Miles. When confronted years later Miles admitted, "Eddie Vinson wrote them! Then I wrote them too! So what!" Well...royalties aside.

                  Comment

                  • Tenor Freak
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 1047

                    NP: "Escapade" - Don Sickler, tp; Jimmy Heath, ts; Cedar Walton, p; Ron Carter, b; Billy Higgins, d. Reservoir Records, 1983.

                    I also own a couple of Don Sickler's transcriptions, one of Joe Henderson solos, and one of John Coltrane's. They're both excellent.
                    Last edited by Tenor Freak; 14-03-21, 19:40.
                    all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

                    Comment

                    • elmo
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 541

                      "Afternoon in Paris" one of John Lewis most lyrical compositions - this version has a great Milt Jackson solo (and the rest of the band too)



                      elmo

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                      • Serial_Apologist
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 37560

                        Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
                        "Uranus"
                        Is there vegetation on it?

                        (Old school joke)

                        Comment

                        • Jazzrook
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 3061

                          Kenny Dorham & The Jazz Prophets with J.R. Monterose, Dick Katz, Sam Jones & Arthur Edgehill playing 'Tahitian Suite' in 1956:

                          From Album "Kenny Dorham And The Jazz Prophets"(ABC-Paramount ABC 122)Kenny Dorham (tp) J.R. Monterose (ts) Dick Katz (p) Sam Jones (b) Arthur Edgehill (ds)R...


                          JR

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                          • Joseph K
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2017
                            • 7765

                            Allan Holdsworth - Leverkusen '97

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                            • Joseph K
                              Banned
                              • Oct 2017
                              • 7765

                              Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                              Allan Holdsworth - Leverkusen '97

                              The whole album is awesome, but particularly here, I think:

                              Comment

                              • Ian Thumwood
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 4129

                                Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
                                Bluesnik sent me his copy of Whistle Stop which is a great album. The tune "Windmill" is my favourite - a complex head over a set of changes including some pedal point bass, then the solos are over the changes of "Sweet Georgia Brown" with perhaps some tweaks to flatten some ninths and raise some elevenths, courtesy of Kenny Drew. Great stuff. Indeed I'm playing it now, Kenny plays a great solo, and Hank is on excellent form. Dorham was a damn fine talent indeed, his compositions stand up today, such as "Escapade" and "Back Road" on Joe Henderson's "Our Thing" plus many more.

                                NP: "Windmill" - Kenny Dorham t; Hank Mobley ts; Kenny Drew p; Paul Chambers b; "Philly" Joe Jones, d. Blue Note Records, 1961.
                                I think that this album was a step change for Dorham. The quality of the compositions really sets this album apart in my opinion but I totally agree that "Our thing" is a great album too. Aside from the more celebrated Blue Note albums, there is a 2-CD set on Avid that you can pick up cheaply which features four of Dorham's albums for other labels. The ballad album is ok but the first disc also includes his singing in an attempt to match the work of Chet Baker. This album is dreadful but the reason for buying the CD is the second CD which includes two ferocious live sets with Jackie McLean. ("Inta something" and "Matador." ) I am not too familiar with a lot of the earlier material he produced although "Afro Cuban" is a decent album albeit very much of it's era. It still has some great compositions on it.

                                For the benefit of Joseph, the best material is largely to be found on "Whistle stop" and the five albums he made in conjunction with Joe Henderson made under both of their names but often with different pianists. These records are essential, in my opinion. The Avid record is worth the money for the second disc although the ballads album is decent enough.

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