What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Ian Thumwood]

Bruce

I am not familiar with a lot of the new, European artists on ECM but it is quite staggering to find that someone like Julia Hulsmann has already been on the label for ten years. What I have heard by her has really underwhelmed me too. It is so typical of what Manfred Eicher puts out now as opposed to it being challenging and original when I first heard it. I think that the record that shocked me most when I was getting into jazz was the John Surman / Karin Krog album called "Such winters of memory" . Charles Fox played a track called "My friends" which sounded like nothing I had heard before. I had no idea that jazz could sound like that. It was only when my mate played me Surman's "Amazing adventures of Simon, Simon" that the penny dropped and I felt that I had really overcome a hurdle in listening to jazz by this point. Quite how ECM have managed to go on to record someone like Hulsmann who has struck me as being very average at best staggers me.

Part of me wonders whether the whole ECM appeal is down to nostalgia. I used to buy my records from a specialist shop in Southsea and the owner would always give me the new ECM catalogue whenever it came out. The cover art, intriguing combinations of instruments and unlikely combinations made this label addictive for me in the late 1980s. There was a period of about 5-7 years when I would buy little else. However, it is noticeable that the better stuff at that time came from genuine jazz artists like John Abercrombie, Ralph Towner, Paul Bley, Keith Jarrett, Bill Frisell, Kenny Wheeler, John Taylor, John Surman, Bobo Stenson, Tomasz Stanko and Dave Holland. If you wanted to step outside of the box, I always felt that Egberto Gismonti was exceptional. It is evident that Eicher has been on a quest to find a pianist to match either Bley or Jarrett but have never really succeeded. So many of his signings include pianists you can match the naval-gazing introspection of Paul Bley yet none of them seem to get in the zone as much as the late Canadian. Even when the like of Craig Taborn, David Virelles or Vijay Iyer has cropped up in ECM, I just think that they sound better on other people's records.

As for the younger musicians, they are completely off my radar. The tracks by the Israeli saxophonist, for example, seem so bland from the samples that you winder why anyone would listen to this stuff for any other reason than brand loyalty to ECM - especially when you have the likes of J D Allen being consistently excellent and effectively smashing these upstarts. I used to feel that there was something special about ECM and that the music produced was so refreshing and original that you were compelled to be pulled in to listen intently. I think the premise is still there but, in practice, it is a parody of it's former self. Take away the slick and shiny production with the reverb and the pretentious 5 second pause before each record starts, ECM is now all about product and maintaining an image. A lot of the new stuff sounds quite third rate to my ears. The music has been polished so much that there is now nothing left to get excited about.

[Joseph K]

Coltrane - Live in Japan

I've mentioned before about listening to this in its entirety before while high on MDMA and weed (I think I'd take the opportunity of the bass solos to skin-up again ). Well, today, high on chocolate and caffeine (tea) it sounds pretty damn good. I think Rashied Ali plays a large role in the whole sound of the group in comparison to the Classic Quartet - it's really frenetic drumming to be sure. And of course, Coltrane is shamanic (both John and Alice) ...

[Tenor Freak]

The ECMfest (sic) continues with two by Jakob Bro: "Returnings", a quartet with Palle Mikkelborg on trumpet and the late Jon Christensen (quite good) and "Streams", which is a trio with Joey Baron (OK). Bro's use of effects and reverb puts him in the same ballpark as Bill Frisell, but with less of the dissonance that makes the latter so listenable. Then "Temporary Kings" by Mark Turner and Ethan Iverson. This is an excellent set on first hearing, similar in a way to another Turner duo CD "Dusk is a Quiet Place" with Baptiste Trotignon but with a broader sweep, and a bit less playful than "Dusk" which was recorded on a live tour. The sound isn't quite as antiseptic as usual, but it seems Manfred is recording away from Oslo these days: "Temporary Kings" was recorded in Lugano, Switzerland. I admit my own bias here, I think Mark Turner is one of the most distinctive tenor players around today and when he's on form he can twist sinewy lines out that are complex yet memorable. Plus his mastery of the altissimo register on the tenor is unsurpassed in jazz. IMO.

[Bryn]

Carla Bley: Musique Mechanique (currently spinning on Radio 3).

[Joseph K]

I admit my own bias here, I think Mark Turner is one of the most distinctive tenor players around today and when he's on form he can twist sinewy lines out that are complex yet memorable. Plus his mastery of the altissimo register on the tenor is unsurpassed in jazz. IMO.

I know some of his playing because he's played with Kurt Rosenwinkel and Mike Stern I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3BwTLAj_x8

[Ian Thumwood]

Bruce / Joseph
The only thing I have with Mark Turner on is a Crosscross disc by Dave Binney called "Barefooted Town" where he sounds indistinguishable from Binney's alto sometimes. He gets a lot of attention but I am sure it was Turner who was singled out for some scathing criticism by Jaimie Branch. I found Turner's playing really controlled and his tone reminded me a lot of Warne Marsh. However, I think that there is something special about Binney's musical relationship with Chris Potter which has impressed me a lot of record. They seem to really like sparring against each other. At one point I was acquiring a lot of Binney's material and had even downloaded some of his lead sheets on line which are fascinating of really difficult to play.

I am intrigued by the comments about players like Jakob Bro as I have not heard a lot of his music. Again, I was put off by a "Jazz Bastards" review several years back where the two American hosts ripped in to a trio record which might have been "Streams." They were very negative about him but, in fairness, the last Abercombie disc "Up and coming" was very, very introspective too. This is the last , new ECM record I have bought prior to the Bley trio although the Iverson / Turner quartet appealed as does Iverson's more recent effort with Tom Harrell. Shame this latter disc is chock-a-block with standards. Not sure if I need another version of "All the things you are." I think that there is a swathe of more mainstream stuff like this on ECM I would probably like on other labels and am a bit wary of Eicher's production values. It is good that there is more live material on the label other than by Jarrett.

Good to hear Baptiste Trotignon's name as he is an unsung hero of jazz piano. I have heard him at Vienne (twice, I think) including the group led by Aldo Romano with Enrico Rava on trumpet. The music on the tour came form the album "inner Smile" and it is something going very cheaply on Amazon at the moment. I think that this album is something that might have been put out by ECM in the 1970s but it has a bit of pep and a sense of humour about it. I quite like Rava's playing. The concert was really good and I can also remember driving home from watching Winchester City play one sunny autumn afternoon and thinking how appropriate it was to listen to this record in my car.

[Joseph K]

Paul Motian & the Electric Bebop Band - Plays Monk and Powell

[Tenor Freak]

A new day and a new ECM release: Maciej Obara, "Three Crowns". Two tracks in, sounds like a good 'un.

[Bert]

Esbjorn Svensson Trio - e.s.t live in London

[Serial_Apologist]

Esbjorn Svensson Trio - e.s.t live in London

Hi Bert! Welcome to the forum, and in particular the "jazz bored"; you'll find stimulating and knowledgeable discussion here!

[Ian Thumwood]

A new day and a new ECM release: Maciej Obara, "Three Crowns". Two tracks in, sounds like a good 'un.

Bruce

Obara is a totally new name to me. I managed to find a link on line to his music this morning and it reminded me a bit of "First House" who used to be around in the 1980's. It is a sound which I feel owes a lot to Jan Garbarek's late 1970's approach but I found this music a bit academic and unmoving. I would concede that the approach is wholly different to the American approach yet I have heard countless groups at Vienne produce this kind of vibe. It really strikes me as a having a kind of academic feel about it. That kind of harmonic approach is almost ubiquitous and something that struck me as being very much the kind of "alternative " response to the kind of New Neo's of the 1980s. There are too many groups who play with this aesthetic, it almost seeming like the stock European response in a fashion to the Joshua Redman- style approach . I don't dislike it although it gives the impression of being academic, cold and distant. All very serious. It would not be on my "to buy" list, I am afraid.

I have been playing Jon Shenoy's "Draw by Four" which is a very "English" approach to the traditional organ /tenor / guitar/ drums format. It is a really enjoyable disc with some excellent tunes, often with quite witty titles such as "Tomorrow's worriers."

The other record is the promising combination of Bill Frisell backed by the NDR big band performing charts by Mike Gibbs. (The one exception being Gil Evans' "Las Vegas Tango.") It is a strange record as I love the work of both these musicians and although it is good, it is nice quite the classic that I had hoped for. The best track is a version of Benny Goodman's "Benny's Bugle" which tips it's hat towards Charlie Christian.

[Serial_Apologist]

it reminded me a bit of "First House" who used to be around in the 1980's.

I'd almost forgotten them - it was through First House that one first got to hear drummer Martin France. Whatever happened to (Liverpool-born, iirc) alto saxophonist Ken Stubbs? Another name that has faded into the irretrievable past.

[Tenor Freak]

Ken Stubbs moved to Australia some time ago. I saw First House supporting Ornette Coleman's Prime Time at Camden, 1986. Don't remember much about that gig other than it was a trio as Django Bates wasn't available.

[Jazzrook]

George Russell's 'Concerto For Billy The Kid' with Art Farmer, Hal McKusick, Bill Evans, Barry Galbraith, Milt Hinton & Paul Motian in 1956:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=JrNf4KL_9SI

JR

[Ian Thumwood]

Ken Stubbs is heavily involved in jazz education in Australia and, as Bruce says, I think he has been there since the 1990s.

It is curious to have had Ken Stubbs and Ornette on the say bill as I think that they are polar opposites. I used to have the First House album on a tape but it was always something that struck me as sounding like a serious version of some of the later incarnations of "Human Chain." It was not a group that I warmed to although I really liked what Django Bates did under his own name at the same time. You could tell they were good although I think how much of an impact Eicher had in the production of the record as it seemed quite austere, almost as if they had been directed not to be frivolous. You wonder whether they would have been more fun like.

Talking of jazz musicians from the 1980s, I have been playing Niels Lan Doky's "Scandinavian standards" record. I caught this trio in a free , afternoon session at Vienne and thought that the trio was really good. I think it must have been around 2014/15. Lan Doky was getting a lot of attention in the 1980s when he was recruited by Elvin Jones but he faded from the limelight. I really like this record because it is largely made up a mixture of folk songs, interpretations of Classical themes by Neilson, Greig and Sibelius. There is one original and a jazz composition by Bengt Hallberg who was a pianist from Sweden who worked in the 50s and 60s. Some of the tunes already had a jazz pedigree in Scandinavia although "Dear Old Stockholm" is a genuine jazz standard of which post people are probably ignorant of it's folk origins. The classical tunes often work when they shouldn't. The hymn from Finlandia emerged no less impressive than in it's symphonic origins whereas "Hall of the mountain king" is just very good fun - it just seems to have been recorded for their amusement and for the musicians to enjoy themselves in a witty arrangement. There is also a fourth element which entails flirting with pop tunes which are probably unfamiliar due to their age and their origins although "Ah-ha's" "The living daylights" is recast as a workout for the bassist. Intriguingly, there is nothing by "Abba" which probably is accounted for by the fact that this music is irredeemable.

It is nice to listen to a really good trio play like this. The drummer Niclas Bardeleben is really exceptional and the bassist Jonathan Bremer no slouch either. Neither of these musicians are familiar names and even Lan Doky is quite obscure these days. I would say that this trio is stylistically in the case territory as Kenny Barron and you could even argue that it is very unfashionable albeit in a way that was pleasing about 7-8 years ago. The music lacks the "serious" stylings and indeed the introspection of ECM whilst exhibiting an element of humour without diminishing it to the kind of shallow, immature dross that ACT specialize in. If you like, it is totally mainstream and perhaps in a fashion that is underrepresented in the media.