What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Ian Thumwood]

There was a Spanish jazz night at Vienne this year which was the second time they had done this. On both occasions the music was dreadful and even Chick Corea was a let down. The first time featured Chano Dominguez who received a lot of favourable comment but , to me, it just sounded kitsch.

Personally, I blame Jelly Roll Morton for this having made the comment that jazz needed a "Spanish tinge!" I love Afro-Cuban jazz which has it's own culture but whenever a Spanish influence is added, the music does sound dodgy. I really dislike Corea's exploration of this idiom as it sounds corny but it is interesting to read that there is a bit if a backlash these days about Miles' / Gil's "Sketches of Spain" which was always considered a masterpiece. It is my least favourite of the collaborations although it was my favourite when I discovered it first. I am not so sure about it now.

I am not at all familiar with any Spanish jazz musicians and almost consider it "a land without jazz." I don't doubt it exists and am aware that the likes of Denis Gonsalvez has made some decent records over there. However, it is not a country that ever seems to have manifested itself on a Europhile label like ECM. I am sure that there are some great Spanish jazz musicians but it does not have a record that is equal to UK, France or Scandinavia. Scotland has probably produced more jazz musicians than Spain.

The other point I would make is that the Hampton record was probably made off the cuff when the band was visiting Spain. I am sure he would have hooked up with local musicians and this is the result. There are some brilliant "French Cool" records made by Hampton in Paris in the early 50s which are amongst his best (and most atypical) which are well worth checking out. A better example of him associating with local culture?

The best Jazz / Spain album has to be Charlie Haden's "Ballad of the fallen" which includes a number of themes from the Spanish Civil War. This was easily one of the best albums of the 1980s - a real classic.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

There was a Spanish jazz night at Vienne this year which was the second time they had done this. On both occasions the music was dreadful and even Chick Corea was a let down. The first time featured Chano Dominguez who received a lot of favourable comment but , to me, it just sounded kitsch.

Personally, I blame Jelly Roll Morton for this having made the comment that jazz needed a "Spanish tinge!" I love Afro-Cuban jazz which has it's own culture but whenever a Spanish influence is added, the music does sound dodgy. I really dislike Corea's exploration of this idiom as it sounds corny but it is interesting to read that there is a bit if a backlash these days about Miles' / Gil's "Sketches of Spain" which was always considered a masterpiece. It is my least favourite of the collaborations although it was my favourite when I discovered it first. I am not so sure about it now.

I am not at all familiar with any Spanish jazz musicians and almost consider it "a land without jazz." I don't doubt it exists and am aware that the likes of Denis Gonsalvez has made some decent records over there. However, it is not a country that ever seems to have manifested itself on a Europhile label like ECM. I am sure that there are some great Spanish jazz musicians but it does not have a record that is equal to UK, France or Scandinavia. Scotland has probably produced more jazz musicians than Spain.

The other point I would make is that the Hampton record was probably made off the cuff when the band was visiting Spain. I am sure he would have hooked up with local musicians and this is the result. There are some brilliant "French Cool" records made by Hampton in Paris in the early 50s which are amongst his best (and most atypical) which are well worth checking out. A better example of him associating with local culture?

The best Jazz / Spain album has to be Charlie Haden's "Ballad of the fallen" which includes a number of themes from the Spanish Civil War. This was easily one of the best albums of the 1980s - a real classic.

Tete Montoliu? http://youtu.be/-on4qQYDGVA...With Roland Kirk in Milan in 1962. Wonderful piece of film. There was a strong jazz scene in Spain, but not helped by Franco etc. I am constantly surprised just how good a lot of non British EUROPEAN jazz was in that era, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Spain, Italy and Eastern Europe, some of it exceptional. I only now realise how blinkered I was then to it, the British disease. One of many, ongoing. British jazz certainly had its equals and often betters.

[Jazzrook]

Cecil Taylor's 'Silent Tongues' is one of the great live solo piano jazz albums and I was delighted to discover this footage of part of his performance at Montreux, 1974:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=EsdkKnTB2vI

JR

[gradus]

Fats Waller, unbeatable for raising the mood, great songs and such piano playing. I'd forgotten him for years but I'm glad he's back in my listening life.

[Serial_Apologist]

There was a Spanish jazz night at Vienne this year which was the second time they had done this. On both occasions the music was dreadful and even Chick Corea was a let down. The first time featured Chano Dominguez who received a lot of favourable comment but , to me, it just sounded kitsch.

Personally, I blame Jelly Roll Morton for this having made the comment that jazz needed a "Spanish tinge!" I love Afro-Cuban jazz which has it's own culture but whenever a Spanish influence is added, the music does sound dodgy. I really dislike Corea's exploration of this idiom as it sounds corny but it is interesting to read that there is a bit if a backlash these days about Miles' / Gil's "Sketches of Spain" which was always considered a masterpiece. It is my least favourite of the collaborations although it was my favourite when I discovered it first. I am not so sure about it now.

I am not at all familiar with any Spanish jazz musicians and almost consider it "a land without jazz." I don't doubt it exists and am aware that the likes of Denis Gonsalvez has made some decent records over there. However, it is not a country that ever seems to have manifested itself on a Europhile label like ECM. I am sure that there are some great Spanish jazz musicians but it does not have a record that is equal to UK, France or Scandinavia. Scotland has probably produced more jazz musicians than Spain.

The other point I would make is that the Hampton record was probably made off the cuff when the band was visiting Spain. I am sure he would have hooked up with local musicians and this is the result. There are some brilliant "French Cool" records made by Hampton in Paris in the early 50s which are amongst his best (and most atypical) which are well worth checking out. A better example of him associating with local culture?

The best Jazz / Spain album has to be Charlie Haden's "Ballad of the fallen" which includes a number of themes from the Spanish Civil War. This was easily one of the best albums of the 1980s - a real classic.

One of the problems I feel with jazz/Spanish crossovers or fusions is that the Spanish folk idiom always thought as exemplifying the whole culture is Flamenco - thus excluding the rest of the country outside Andalucia - and that in any case Flamenco in its rawest manifestation is an equal to the blues and arguably not to be messed with... I never much liked Chick Corea's "Spain", his parting party piece, even on that otherwise wonderful 2 LP solo set from 1971 on ECM, but especially with live concert audience mass handclapping redolent of "I'm Off to Sunny Spain, Viva Espana". If it has to be done arguably the John McLaughlin/Paco de Lucia approach is best as its ubiquitous Phrygian mode draws attention to the music's part origins in Near Eastern musical traditions which have their own improvisatory disciplines. But I must admit to being rather partial to how Mingus sometimes did it - "Soul Fusion"... but now tell me "Tijuana Moods" is Mexican!

[Joseph K]

I love the tune 'Spain', and love the album 'Light as a Feather', which in fact now it's been mentioned, I'll listen to, after Brahms though.

[Serial_Apologist]

I love the tune 'Spain', and love the album 'Light as a Feather', which in fact now it's been mentioned, I'll listen to, after Brahms though.

I do like the rest of "Light as a Feather"!!!

[Joseph K]

I do like the rest of "Light as a Feather"!!!

Brings back fond memories of my last year at uni.

[Serial_Apologist]

Brings back fond memories of my last year at uni.

That probably puts about 5 or 6 years between us then.

[Joseph K]

That probably puts about 5 or 6 years between us then.

? I mean, I bought the record in 2009.

[Ian Thumwood]

One of the problems I feel with jazz/Spanish crossovers or fusions is that the Spanish folk idiom always thought as exemplifying the whole culture is Flamenco - thus excluding the rest of the country outside Andalucia - and that in any case Flamenco in its rawest manifestation is an equal to the blues and arguably not to be messed with... I never much liked Chick Corea's "Spain", his parting party piece, even on that otherwise wonderful 2 LP solo set from 1971 on ECM, but especially with live concert audience mass handclapping redolent of "I'm Off to Sunny Spain, Viva Espana". If it has to be done arguably the John McLaughlin/Paco de Lucia approach is best as its ubiquitous Phrygian mode draws attention to the music's part origins in Near Eastern musical traditions which have their own improvisatory disciplines. But I must admit to being rather partial to how Mingus sometimes did it - "Soul Fusion"... but now tell me "Tijuana Moods" is Mexican!

But the whole aspect of Flamenco being the Spanish equivalent of the Blues does not absolve any Spanish fusion for me. Paco de Lucia may have been a tremendous guitarist but the results still sound cheesy. It is really difficult to escape the whole kitsch feel of Spanish music whether it de Lucia, Sketches of Spain, Granados, or Flamenco in it's purest form.

I can remember driving home from Porchester Castle one Sunday afternoon and listening to a Radio 3 documentary which concerned the influence of Beethoven in Spain and laboured the fact that Beethoven was not really performed in Spain until the early 20th century and that the country was almost self-centred on it's own musical heritage so that it lagged way behind musically. There are some kinds of music I can appreciate even if I don't like it but Spanish music always seems like something technically accomplished but of questionable taste. I am afraid I find it totally irredeemable - a bit like Southampton's performance this afternoon, it is difficult to defend!

[Joseph K]

But the whole aspect of Flamenco being the Spanish equivalent of the Blues does not absolve any Spanish fusion for me. Paco de Lucia may have been a tremendous guitarist but the results still sound cheesy. It is really difficult to escape the whole kitsch feel of Spanish music whether it de Lucia, Sketches of Spain, Granados, or Flamenco in it's purest form.

I can remember driving home from Porchester Castle one Sunday afternoon and listening to a Radio 3 documentary which concerned the influence of Beethoven in Spain and laboured the fact that Beethoven was not really performed in Spain until the early 20th century and that the country was almost self-centred on it's own musical heritage so that it lagged way behind musically. There are some kinds of music I can appreciate even if I don't like it but Spanish music always seems like something technically accomplished but of questionable taste. I am afraid I find it totally irredeemable - a bit like Southampton's performance this afternoon, it is difficult to defend!

Wow, such a sweeping statement about the music of an entire country. I love Paco de Lucia. This tune, written by him and Chick Corea, is one of my favourites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEmoKkUMlD8

Also struggle how it can be seen of questionable taste or kitsch, the phrygian/phrygian-dominant scale sounds quite serious - not of course that mere use of this scale necessarily doesn't sound of questionable taste, but we're dealing here with quite an old traditional form of music that that is positively chock full of intricacies and distinctive expressive musical features. It is not in the slightest bit difficult to defend, I find it as easy to love as it is to take pity on those who for some reason dismiss it. Here's another tune I love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTNwU2iiprk

… I love its piquant singing, and it is very much akin to the blues, like a sophisticated folk music.

[Padraig]

Wow, such a sweeping statement about the music of an entire country.

I thought so too, JK.

However, I also thought that Jazz, being born in New Orleans, was a music that grew from the varied cultural influences of that City. As it spread worldwide, I supposed that it picked up further characteristics here and there. So, Spanish practitioners would play a music recognisably Jazz, with a few touches derived from what they knew best - maybe a special guitar sound, or a Latin rhythm.

I would not 'blame' Jelly Roll Morton for introducing his Spanish Tinge. Far from it. It was a shot in the arm for early New Orleans Jazz, and Morton made liberal use of the rhythm in his piano technique and in his bands. Unsurprisingly, the Quintet I posted exhibited a prominent Spanish tinge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkGjDbKauVo

[Joseph K]

I thought so too, JK.

However, I also thought that Jazz, being born in New Orleans, was a music that grew from the varied cultural influences of that City. As it spread worldwide, I supposed that it picked up further characteristics here and there. So, Spanish practitioners would play a music recognisably Jazz, with a few touches derived from what they knew best - maybe a special guitar sound, or a Latin rhythm.

I would not 'blame' Jelly Roll Morton for introducing his Spanish Tinge. Far from it. It was a shot in the arm for early New Orleans Jazz, and Morton made liberal use of the rhythm in his piano technique and in his bands. Unsurprisingly, the Quintet I posted exhibited a prominent Spanish tinge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkGjDbKauVo

Thanks for the link, Padraig.

[Jazzrook]

Jimmy Giuffre, Paul Bley & Steve Swallow live in Bremen, 1961:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI0Gf7eo6P8

JR